What's the story of the naked Bulova lady?

Just purchased my 1st vintage Bulova gents watch. Came with the Bulova 1940's ivory colored presentation box & on the top outside is the same naked lady as in the banner of this website. Who is she & why did they choose her? How long has she been associated with Bulova marketing? Thanks! BTW my 1st post & I did search "naked lady".

mybulova_admin
Posted September 1, 2012 - 3:01am

Club 5000Panel Member

:-) some interesting search results I bet....

Great question I'll ask Bulova and see if they know why.

It would have been very riskay back in the day, maybe that was part of the marketing ploy.

Hotshu
Posted September 1, 2012 - 5:16am

I'm surprised it hasn't been asked before. Should make for an interesting story. And yes, good thing I didn't google search that. :)

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted September 1, 2012 - 7:50am

I'll take a stab at it.

The image is an artists rendition of the 'Goddess Of Time', possibly Fortuna who was the Roman Goddess of time and fate.

Lady Luck.

mybulova_admin
Posted September 2, 2012 - 6:23am

Club 5000Panel Member

Wow there you go. Sounds like a nice tie in to me.

bobbee's picture
bobbee
Posted September 2, 2012 - 6:46am

Well done Mark. Err, hmmm, got any more of those pics? Purely for research, of course!  : )

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DarHin
Posted September 2, 2012 - 7:07am

Ah, Fortuna and her wheel. This has sparked an urge to reread A Confederacy of Dunces.

bobbee's picture
bobbee
Posted September 2, 2012 - 7:25am

Fortuna is the Roman godess of luck, or fortune Mark. Below is Albrecht Durer's Fortuna (small happiness), and Beccafumi's La Fortuna.

Fortuna's only connection with time is to do with Astrology and the Zodiac.

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

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DarHin
Posted September 2, 2012 - 7:33am

So if I can get my girlfriend to stand on a bowling ball she'll have glutes like that?

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted September 2, 2012 - 7:40am

after 6 Months Darren.

Fortuna's role in Roman Mythology (?) is open to interpretation. I'd read She was the symbol of Time and Fate - as stated.

The Bulova Artists rendition is certainly similar and I'll stick with 'Goddess Of Time'.

The Ancient Greeks named Her differently...

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bobbee
Posted September 2, 2012 - 7:42am

I've gone with facts from Wikipedia, as supplied by experts in the field of Roman Mythology.

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted September 2, 2012 - 7:44am

Note the Bulova 'Goddess' is depicted with a sundial.

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bobbee
Posted September 2, 2012 - 7:54am

It's just a picture Mark, and is a Marketing tool, not  a Roman or Greek classical Goddess. There is no female goddess of time in either Greek or Roman mythology. It clearly borrows from the Roman Fortuna, but it does not mean anything, just a nice painting/picture.

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted September 2, 2012 - 7:58am

bobbee,

I didn't say it was an actiual Goddess, I said it was an artists rendition.

Goddess Fortuna was referenced for similarity. - Here is a quote from 'WIkipedia' on Fortuna.

"Her name seems to derive from Vortumna (she who revolves the year)"

this is not an arguement, merely an observation.

'GODDESS OF TIME'

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bobbee
Posted September 2, 2012 - 8:09am

If you read the quote you referenced you must have read some or all of the Wiki post on Fortuna, wher it says she is the goddess of Fortune,Luck,Chance. Not arguing Mark, just using my Head, not my Heart. What do you mean by your last sentence?

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted September 2, 2012 - 8:31am

The 'naked Bulova Lady' is an artists rendition of a Goddess Of Time. The image is seen on Bulova packaging materials of the Watch of the same name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Time_and_fate_goddesses 

The Artists rendition is possibly taken from images of the Roman Goddess Fortuna.

hope this clarifys any mis-understandings.

bobbee's picture
bobbee
Posted September 2, 2012 - 8:50am

Yes, I saw that too but if you read about the Goddesses under the heading Time and Fate goddesses you will realise that it means Goddesses of Time and Goddesses of Fate, and are not a combination, such as Tyche, who you referred to but did not name in your earlier post, who is the Greek counterpart of Fortuna, and are the Goddesses of luck and Fortune. 

Hope this clarifies any misunderstanding.

 

bobbee's picture
bobbee
Posted September 2, 2012 - 8:54am

Great fun looking at all these pics, yeah? Who said research is dull! : )

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted September 2, 2012 - 9:32am

It's fun, without a doubt.

Not to split hairs but ones destiny, fate or fortune, good or bad elapses over time.

As stated Fortuna's role in Ancient times is open to interpretation which does not necessarily include Monetary wealth, although it does.

I'd go with Tyche, but most images show a Brunette.

: )

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bobbee
Posted September 2, 2012 - 9:41am

Mark read about it, don't make it up.

JP
Posted September 2, 2012 - 9:46am

Panel Member

Give me a good ole Red Head any time. :)

William Smith's picture
William Smith
Posted September 2, 2012 - 4:44pm

Club 5000Panel Member

I'd read somewhere there was a famous dancer of the period, and there were parelle's drawn between this dancer and the "Bulova Lady".  It suggested partial inspiration for the "Bulova Lady". Don't remember the dancers name, nor what the just of the associations btwn the two were, but I believe the dancer had the same hair color as the "Bulova Lady".  ...and for some reason, I remember some reference to "warm, soft and gossamar" and/or "as if on gossamar wings"

There's a famous poem which may be named "on gossamer wings"? It began something like "I stand on a hilltop, which spreads ever before me, on my bare feet. Wind whisps my hair, long auburn locks blown as if with a life of their own..."  I do remember this poem used allusion to suggest the passing of time, the parade of days...

I also remember reading this lady dancer was to dance as Ima Sumac was to voice, so it musta been a retrospect: the dancer becoming well known in the early 1920's and Sumac gaining fame by the mid 1940's. 

....so what ever I read was not something used by Bulova when they most likely adopted use of "The Bulova Lady", but someone speculating on her potential origins with Bulova after the fact.

EDIT: ...and after checking, I didn't save nor bookmark what ever it was I originally read....and my memory isn't what it use to be :)

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted September 2, 2012 - 4:59pm

Well, it certainly looks like She's Dancing..

William Smith's picture
William Smith
Posted September 2, 2012 - 5:52pm

Club 5000Panel Member

Although our first "Goddess of Time" ad c1936-  a little after the fact- and we see the lady on watch boxes/ads long before "Goddess of Time" model, we have the trademark data:


So the "Goddess of Time" name and ads are pre-trademark filing date.
I've always seen the possible dancing and gossamer veil or scarf she's holding..  I "like" the Goddess of Time name for her...what ever she's called...."The Bulova Lady" name is pale by comparison.
EDIT: ...and I failed to see the "Goddess of Time" trademark info, on same page linked above; with same filing date:

so  "Goddess of Time" and the Bulova Lady logo/symbol were simultaneously on the minds of Bulova- even if years after the fact.
 

bobbee's picture
bobbee
Posted September 3, 2012 - 7:11pm

The image in the link below is the Russian dancer Nicolsca, and this photo was taken in the 1920's at the Parthenon in Greece. Although it is a couple of years after the Bulova dancing lady came on the scene, it is possible the dancer was seen by someone from Bulova earlier in time. I think this image is the closest yet seen.

Cannot upload the actual pic as it has copyrights, and it was sold by auction at Sotheby's for £7,500. 

Will, did you mean Anna Pavlova in your earlier post? She was certainly a most celebrated dancer in the early 1900s.

Mark, all Bulova watch boxes had that pic on them till the 1950s

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William Smith
Posted September 8, 2012 - 2:19pm

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Bobbee I still can't remember the name of the lady dancer at this point it's all hearsay anyway

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted September 3, 2012 - 7:51am

bobbee,

To You She may be a Dancer from the mid 1920's but to Me She is the 'Goddess of Time'

We may never know.

bobbee's picture
bobbee
Posted September 3, 2012 - 7:59am

Didn't mean to upset you Mark, I was just trying to keep to the facts buddy. What do you think of that pic from the link, pretty "exotic" hmm? : )

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted September 3, 2012 - 8:03am

Not upset in the least Bob - Bulovas' fascination with Time and the Ancient is clearly evident, if one delves.

 

bobbee's picture
bobbee
Posted September 3, 2012 - 8:11am

I remember those images from another post about the Berkshire watch, Just love those Art Deco images, and I enjoyed that post enormously, it got me so interested in the Berkshire and Air King that the design became my favourite and resulted in me getting both!

Edit:- Forgot to say that I thought you were holding a torch for the Bulova Lady, just like another famous American image......   ; )

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted September 3, 2012 - 8:24am

Last post on this subject.

In Roman times the Sun Dial was a status symbol - the 'Dancing naked Lady' image used by Bulova clearly shows a sundial, which I relate to Ancient Rome.

bobbee's picture
bobbee
Posted September 3, 2012 - 8:53am

Not a sun dial, just Roman numerals on a clock or watch dial. You get wayyy too romantic sometimes, dude!

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted September 3, 2012 - 11:24am

....perhaps.

 

bobbee's picture
bobbee
Posted September 3, 2012 - 7:06pm

Apart from hair length and colour, my linked pic above is almost exactly the same as the Bulova Lady image,hmm?

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted September 3, 2012 - 7:41pm

try googling Aristocrat and Autocrat, paying particular attention to the placement of the words. 

bobbee's picture
bobbee
Posted September 3, 2012 - 10:16pm

Seen that before in the ads here, Bulova used a lot of 18th. century imagery in their early ads, aiming for the "snob" factor, and the "upper crust".

mybulova_admin
Posted September 8, 2012 - 6:53am

Club 5000Panel Member

Here is the response from Bulova when I asked them the question via their Facebook page.

Great Question! She's the "Goddess of Time". She symbolizes style and perfection.

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted September 8, 2012 - 7:56am

....and there it is.

Vintage ad Dated 1937

bobbee's picture
bobbee
Posted September 8, 2012 - 11:59am

Good one, admin.

William Smith's picture
William Smith
Posted September 14, 2012 - 8:10pm

Club 5000Panel Member

and again named in this 1948 ad below. Click for full ad.

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted September 15, 2012 - 6:22am

Nice one.

Just to clarify: the Bulova Goddess Of Time was not named for the Watch - the Watch was named for the Goddess.

which could be My 'duh' moment of the Day.

 

bobbee's picture
bobbee
Posted April 30, 2014 - 3:02pm

FifthAvenueRestorations wrote:

Nice one.

Just to clarify: the Bulova Goddess Of Time was not named for the Watch - the Watch was named for the Goddess.

which could be My 'duh' moment of the Day.

 

 

 

Wrong.

See page two of this thread.

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William Smith
Posted September 15, 2012 - 12:32pm

Club 5000Panel Member

I was too busy theorizing and searching the internet to simply look at what was written on the pedestal she was standing on... 

bobbee's picture
bobbee
Posted February 7, 2013 - 10:29am

Here is a link to some more amazing works of art by C. Coles Phillips, the man who originally did the art work we now know as "The Godess of Time".

It will literally take your breath away, it is so good.

http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7nGhwBNRO0wAEC4qk6B4;_ylu=X3oDMTBybnZlZnRlBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkAw--/SIG=125i27a9a/EXP=1360277793/**http%3a//www.americanartarchives.com/phillips,c.htm

Time Bandit
Posted February 7, 2013 - 11:32am

Bob, how did "we" make the association between C. Coles Phillips and Bulova?? Just wondering if I missed something.

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William Smith
Posted February 7, 2013 - 1:23pm

Club 5000Panel Member

There was something...a newspaper story or some connection.....I just don't remember exactly what or where.... something perhaps stating "the painting now resides in the collection of ...." or "..is now at ________" and I think there was some mention of Bulova.  
Maybe someone esle will remember- I vagely remember- but not the details. 

bobbee's picture
bobbee
Posted February 7, 2013 - 2:13pm

Go to the ad DB.
Look at the second 1922 ad, and just below the bottom right hand corner of the painted lady it says "painted by Coles Phillips".
Also, if you go to the linked site, the second page has an ad we have from 1926, the black and gold ad.
Use the link, you will not be disappointed.

Time Bandit
Posted February 7, 2013 - 3:38pm

Well, I just got off the phone with Jim Vadeboncoeur Jr. who wrote the book Bob was refering to and while we were talking, he came here (mybulova) and looked at this discussion and inparticular the pics that were supposedly done by C. Coles Phillips. He is now retired ( for what he states as some time now) and he said  and I quote,

" none of those pictures were drawn or illustrated by Coles Phillips"

as far as the ad goes (1922 ad) I own the hard copy of that ad and the bottom right hand corner of the "painted lady" actually reads "copywrite (symbol) 1922 J. Bulova Company".

The second part of Bob's linked site with the ad from 1926 along with other Coles Phillips illustrations sent Jim into a small bit of laughter (apparently it is not part of his website) and was placed in amongst other Coles Phillips illustrations by someone with  (his words) "a personal agenda" .

His parting message was "no way in hell did C. Coles Phillips have any part in those illustrations" it's not his style.

bobbee's picture
bobbee
Posted February 7, 2013 - 4:18pm

So this is not real? Doesn't look fake.

And the man who painted this:http://www.americanartarchives.com/phillips_spirit_of_transport_1920.jpg

  (Above is signed Coles Phillips)

Or this:http://www.americanartarchives.com/phillips_lhj21oct.jpg

   (Also signed)

 

 

Did not paint this?

 

 

   If not, how did they get on this website?

Also, who is Jim Vadeboncoeur? The pictures and articles written on the site I link to are all done by Norman (Norm) I. Platnick.

EDIT:_ Please do not download any pictures I have linked to, they are privately owned, and cannot be used in the public domain.

Time Bandit
Posted February 7, 2013 - 4:51pm

Bob, Jim Vadeboncoeur has written several books on illustrators from this time period.  Link http://www.bpib.com/illustrat/phillips.htm As you will note in my previous comments I just quote what an expert in the history of illustrators from this time period says.

He also gave me several other names of experts to contact, which I'm trying to do at present.

Like yourself, I'm just trying to find proof.

A wise man named Bob once told me, "no sense getting your knickers in a bunch" :-p

bobbee's picture
bobbee
Posted February 7, 2013 - 7:38pm

I think the ad Mr. Vadeboncoeur may be referring to is this ad below, notice the legend "Copyright 1922 J.Bulova Co."

 

   And not this one below, an altogether different advert that comes from the December 16th. 1922 Edition of the  Saturday Evening Post.

Looks genuine to me. EDIT:- I just found another ad from the Dec. 16th Stevens Journal, 1922 with the same ad with "painted by Coles Phillips" in the same poition here: