THE BULOVA SENATOR.

Submitted by FifthAvenueRes… on January 27, 2011 - 11:12am

Let's chat about the 'SENATOR' shall We, specifically the Years 1940 - 1949.

The only ad showing the Bulova 'SENATOR' I personally am familiar with shows a Tonnau shape step lugged Case with Gilt (Gold) Arabic Numerals on a White Dial and a 17J movement.

Let's hash this out Boys as now is as good a time as any.

SENATOR 'A' : Shows the Watch on a Leather strap with applied Arabic Numerals, Whie Dial, Modern style Hands.

Circa: approx 1945.

No personal pics, ads only please Gentlemen, preferably with some sort of description and an approximate Date.

Presidence will say 1 member gets to show 1 ad each in turn, this way eveyone wanting to participate can.

Should be fun.

ML.

Wayne Hanley
Posted January 28, 2011 - 5:40pm

It is my opinion that to understand this discussion & enter any comments the readers should be familiar with the following string http://www.mybulova.com/node/1192 titled Retoration 101.

Wayne

 

 

mybulova_admin
Posted January 28, 2011 - 8:30am

Here is my one image.

Bulova Senator Series 1926 - 1962

vintagebulova.com
Posted January 28, 2011 - 9:50am

In reply to by mybulova_admin

Excellent job of pulling together all these ads in one place.  Once again Bulova marketing strikes.

Jay

vintagebulova.com

 

plainsmen
Posted January 28, 2011 - 12:09pm

Incidently... I need two of these crystals for the mid 40's (CMY311),  I believe... hehe... PM me with prices and paypal info!

Wayne Hanley
Posted January 28, 2011 - 2:27pm

Nice collage of Senators-Good Job Admin

Has anyone ever seen a real version of the 1925/26 Senator? It's a beautiful watch in this 1925 ad as 3174, named later in 1925 as Senator.

1925 Senator

In 1928 through 1930 Bulova produced two Senator confuguations, one with engraving on all four sides of the bezel and one with engraving only on the vertical sides of the bezel (slick top & bottom bezel) the 2 configurations are shown in 1928 ads.

What is it that we are hashing out in this string?

Wayne

 

 

FifthAvenueRes…
Posted January 28, 2011 - 5:03pm

Wow!

You Guys certainly know how to Railroad a thread.

Trying to discuss the 1940 - 1949  Senator.

Has anyone seen this Watch in an ad showing any other configuration than with a White Dial and applied Gilt numerals?

Circa 1947:

* GJ raised an interesting observation about the Crystal dimensions in a prior post.

The same Crystal is shown in the GS catalog as fitting 2 other Models:

1. Spencer.

2. Radio City.

Wayne Hanley
Posted January 29, 2011 - 5:01pm

No!

Can you show us a picture or an ad of a Spencer or Radio City?

Except for a crystal, what do Spencer & Radio City have to do with the Senator?

Wayne

P.S. It's not a trick question!

FifthAvenueRes…
Posted January 29, 2011 - 6:44pm

Spencer,

exact Year unknown.

plainsmen
Posted January 29, 2011 - 10:00pm

Only year I can find anything for the Spencer is 1943.. very legitimate catalog showing this:

But of course the case is not one would associate with a Senator

mybulova_admin
Posted January 29, 2011 - 9:47pm

so far...

Arabic Numerals, Whie Dial = Senator

Exploding dial = Spencer

Myabe its that simple.

Is it fair to assume that the Senator was never released with an exploding dial.

plainsmen
Posted January 29, 2011 - 10:00pm

In reply to by mybulova_admin

Agreed.... exploding salmon dial is pretty much the Spencer...

White regular dials.... Senators

Wondering... hrmm... I have a Spencer here... what years are we finding the Spencer?  Is it only 1943?  I have to go down to the workshop to look at mine and see....

Wayne Hanley
Posted February 25, 2011 - 12:46am

In reply to by plainsmen

I think this is a 1943 Spencer and look it's a white dial with attached arabic numbers. Seems to be on conflict with your summaries so far, Gents.

Wayne

Wayne Hanley
Posted January 30, 2011 - 3:40pm

Rule No.1 With Bulova never assume anything! Below is a Senator with an exploding dial & Modern hands, in a Senator Box, with a Guarantee for this Bulova Senator.

The pic below is a 1940s Spensor with a white dial & Modern hands.

The original discussion from Restoration 101 was authentic hands for the Senator under restoration.

The authentic hands for a Senator are the Modern style. The only other model that used the Senator case was the Bulova Blackout.

mybulova_admin
Posted January 30, 2011 - 11:05pm

In reply to by Wayne Hanley

Wayne, dial in not exploding type. Rose coloured yes, but exploding no.

Statement made was that Spencers = Exploding (regardless of color) Senators = Normal (as you have proved, regardless of color)

Wayne Hanley
Posted January 31, 2011 - 4:12am

In reply to by mybulova_admin

Stephen, I errored in calling the copper dial with arabic numbers an exploding dial. But it is a copper dial & the Senator watch with the box and Bulova Guarantee were special & correct for the Senator. Just one copper dial Senator above shoots down the statement that all Senators are white dialed certainly copper and shoots "Senators have all white dials is not a fact"  

 

FifthAvenueRes…
Posted February 1, 2011 - 9:08am

In reply to by mybulova_admin

admin,

Example of a 1949 Bulova Guarantee Bond with dated original receipt. The Blue Leatherette presentation boxes naming the Watch encased did not appear until the late 1950's and continued through the 1960's.

A Second example of a genuine 1940's Presentation box and Guarantee Bond appears with this 1949 'BRUNSWICK' which is new, old Jeweler stock.

 A 3rd example of the 1940's style Presentation Box and Guarantee Bond is found in this ensemble from a 1940's President.

ML

FifthAvenueRes…
Posted January 30, 2011 - 6:06am

It is fair to assume that all of the Dial variants found in the step lugged Case models are not a 'SENATOR'.

The 1940 - 1949 'SENATOR' has a White or Butler finish Dial with applied Gilt Arabic Numerals and Modern style Hands as shown in all of the ads as there is no variation from that configuration.

Thank You for Your interest Gentlemen.

ML

Wayne Hanley
Posted January 30, 2011 - 4:52pm

ML

No. With Bulova it's not safe to assume anything! Remember Rule No. 1

Regarding the Spensor. Bulova was already producing the Senator and the President with exploding dials. The President case was so similar to the Spencer, it didn't make any buisness cence to produce the Spencer. Especially, when the base metal in 1943 for the Spencer was Sterling Silver. Bulova was also producing a new Excellency Group to debut in 1944..  

FifthAvenueRes…
Posted January 30, 2011 - 10:25pm

Wayne,

The box included with the Watch You show appears to be a Mid 1950's - 1960's style.

The correct style of presentation box used by Bulova in the 1940's is shown below:

The numerals on the Watch Dial You show are Arabic not Exploding as discussed, the Dial incidently looks remarkable for the overall condition of the Case, a redial?

Still, not an ad showing the 'SENATOR' as being anything other than a step lugged case with a White Dial and Gilt Arabic numerals in the Years 1940 - 1949.

ML.

Wayne Hanley
Posted February 21, 2011 - 1:59pm

In reply to by FifthAvenueRes…

Fifth

This is a late1940s Senator box, notice the distintive lug feet on the box match the lug feet on the watch. Has a nice velvet pillow for display of the watch rather than the traditional C mount.

vintagebulova.com
Posted January 30, 2011 - 6:51pm

BULOVA MARKETING - don't we all just love it.  Just when we thought a model was identified up pops another ad calling it a different name.  And the always popular, several different watches with the same name.

Jay

vintagebulova.com

 

Wayne Hanley
Posted February 3, 2011 - 4:26pm

 ML

There is a problem with your analysis that all Senators have white dials. The 1943 Ad in the Senator ad collage above shows a Senator A with a white dial (normally if Bulova designated an A there was also a B, C etc).  I wonder why? Here are two actual Bulova watches from 1943. If the stepped lugged, copper colored, exploding dial watch is named Spencer, what is the name of the watch on the left?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

FifthAvenueRes…
Posted February 3, 2011 - 6:20pm

In reply to by Wayne Hanley

Wayne,

Both the SENATOR 'A's shown in the ads above appear on Leather straps.

The watch You show on the Left is a 'SPENCER', the ad shows that.

 

The only expaination at this time for the Watch You show on the Right would be:

1. A transition Model, 1943 being the Year of the Case design change.

2. Movement swap.

3. Redial.

If it's an Original Watch with a known History then consider explaination 1.

If it's a Restoration or Refurb with no known History then consider any of the explainations above.

mybulova_admin
Posted February 1, 2011 - 11:57pm

Wayne, image file size or format issue maybe.

If you get stuck email them to me and I will add.

plainsmen
Posted February 20, 2011 - 4:37pm

How about his Gents.... maybe this is how it goes?

We know they all take the same crystal.... we have ads for both the Spencer and the Senator but are missing the Radio City ads?

           SPENCER                                      RADIO CITY                                        SENATOR

Wayne Hanley
Posted February 20, 2011 - 11:56pm

Prove the middle watch is Radio City.

There are some comments boxes missing from the end of this string.

Plains, what happened to the new Spencer-Senator comments string that were in the forum earlier today?

It would have been a good to continue that discussion or add it to this string.

 

plainsmen
Posted February 21, 2011 - 12:37am

It's under my 1945 Spencer  watch Wayne... here:

www.mybulova.com/watches/1945-spencer-1571

I'm not saying it is the Radio City... I'm saying we know what the Senator looks like..... we know what the Spencer looks like.... we don't know what the Radio City looks like....

Just throwing that out there... I'm not at all set in stone here gents.  It could make sense though... obviously all three of those above watches would take the same crystal..... aaaand there's 3 watches in the catalogs that take that crystal... sooooo...

mybulova_admin
Posted February 21, 2011 - 1:02am

Gents, part of what we are doing here as a collective is trying to work out these mystery combinations and models. It's great that we are taking the time and effort to do this and I encourage it fully, as this is how things get solved and watches ID'd.

At the end of the day what we need is a general consensus from the members on this site of what we believe the model is. Sometimes that consensus will not be 100% and that is fine as everyone here is 'entitled' to their opinion as we all have differing experiences and knowledge sets.

I'm more than happy for members to throw out ideas for a watch model if it's based on some kind of logical thought. It's then up to the rest of us to either help prove that thought or disprove it which factual evidence...in which case we move on and try again.

The Lone Eagle story was started as a bunch of ideas and thoughts and I was always happy for anyone to say I was wrong, as long as they could back it up with evidence or facts. This is still the case , except for that dodgy mis-labelled Lone Eagle 'A' :-)

One thing I will say though is that we need to be careful ID'ing a watch purely based on its crystal dimensions. We have found recently that this can be often inaccurate. It may help lead us in the right direct but I think it shouldn't be the means by which we solely ID a watch.

Wayne Hanley
Posted February 21, 2011 - 2:48am

When I clicked on the last comment in this string "VALUE OF A BULOVA WATCH"my virus scanner senced an attack & blocked it.. DO NOT OPEN "VALUE OF BULOVA WATCH  STRING"

WAYNE

 

Wayne Hanley
Posted February 22, 2011 - 3:27pm

Fifth

Great Find! Beautiful. Do have the year or any other data on it?

Wayne

FifthAvenueRes…
Posted February 25, 2011 - 5:29am

Wayne,

Of coarse. 8AE 1940

Wayne Hanley
Posted March 3, 2011 - 3:46pm

The dial shape on the movement does not match the shape of the watch Fifth. You may have a difficult time trying to close the case. LOL

Wayne