What do You think?

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture

Ladies and Gentlemen,

There has been a tremendous influx on Our favorite web based auction site as of late of an unnamed Oval Cased Automatic. The Watch is advertized by several individuals as being New, Old Stock, comes in a variety of Colors, Red, Blue, Silver and possibly more.

Rotors are stamped Bulova N9.

10 - 15 of these roll through per Day and have done so for the past 30+ Days coming out of Hong Kong, China.

*Images courtesy of the Internet.

What do We think?

 

 

simpletreasures
Posted February 1, 2011 - 2:40pm

IMO they are in the same catagory as "Punk rock" and "Rap".... Not worth collecting!! I'll stick with the proven classics, like the "Rat Pack" and " Goodman" etc.

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted February 1, 2011 - 3:47pm

I agree.

What I should have asked is does anyone think they are genuine or is this the beginnings of a wave of fake Bulova?

 

simpletreasures
Posted February 1, 2011 - 4:00pm

I don't think they are "FAKE" as much as they are "WANNA-BEES" , what I'm curious about is are they licenesed through Bulova or just knock-offs? In no way are these ever going to be as PRIZED as our original hand made models from a moment in time that will never be duplicated!

Geoff Baker
Posted February 1, 2011 - 3:59pm

Club 5000Panel Member

Well.......the problem is I collect NOS Bulovas, so I am so sorely tempted to buy one, just to see what shows up. It's not the last 30 days, this has been going on for YEARS. Three or four sellers, always the same photos (warning sign) the red face started up about 7-8 months ago, the silver came first, then the black.

Hmmmmmm, they gotta be fakes, there just can't be an endless supply of 1979 brand new Bulovas anywhere on earth........... but what if there is? 

The problem is I collect NOS Bulovas, so I am so sorely tempted to buy one.....

geoff

GVP
Posted February 2, 2011 - 3:47pm

 You take the risk and we'll sit back and await your diagnosis :) Sounds a fair deal to me.....lol

mybulova_admin
Posted February 2, 2011 - 6:20pm

Club 5000Panel Member

Knock-off for sure, just look at the case back. The Chinese love to embellish things that that.

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted February 2, 2011 - 6:41pm

admin,

I've seen the caseback logo before -  1950's Water Tite?

I say knock off.

mybulova_admin
Posted February 2, 2011 - 7:50pm

Club 5000Panel Member

Bulova produced these case backs in the 50s?

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted February 5, 2011 - 11:33am

Similar screw on design, logo looks identical.

1964 666ft

 

Timemachines
Posted February 2, 2011 - 8:27pm

Just thought I would say, it looks correct to me, I have seen many Accutron's at the shows with this dial and case design, I also have a ladies Accutron with the same design, although, I dont think that I have seen any automatics like this one. I do like it.  Mike....

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted February 2, 2011 - 8:46pm

I'm leary, especially when they offer Genuine Italian Leather Watchbands, stamped made in China.

Knock offs are big business, I've seen Coach bags You'd swear are real, Serial #s, Warranty cards and Certificates of Authenticity included. They're not.

As Geoff mentioned there must be literally Thousands of these things flying around. It looks correct but the sheer numbers available as N.O.S. are suspect.

 

Geoff Baker
Posted February 3, 2011 - 5:34am

Club 5000Panel Member

So we all toss a twenty into the pot and buy a........Fake, has to be based on the number available and the 'introduction' of a new dial color. Could be quite nice, hard to detect (unless you're a trained 'maker') really well done fake but I can't imagine it's genuine. We never see more that ONE set of photos, the model of which could have been really slicked up to look really correct but when you open the box................

HEY - on the other hand, back to the twenty each.......I see references to mybulova.com quite often in ebay listings. Maybe we SHOULD buy one and expose it if it's fake? Send it to a member who is highly qualified to determine validity. If it's fake, create a name for it "Chinese Fake -1979 Automatic". Think of it as a public service to the Bulova collectors of the world.

geoff

Timemachines
Posted February 3, 2011 - 8:55am

It very well could be a fake, I had a omega in that was filled with nitrogen and one of the stores wanted me to service it, but I dont have the means to refill the case with nitrogen, so I told them to send it to Omega, and a week later, they told me Omega said it was a fake. I do know that Briteling's and Omega's have some really good fakes out there, so it is intirely possable it is a fake. But it does look real good.
Mike.....

el-ooose
Posted February 3, 2011 - 10:55am

I agree it just has to be a fake. I was given a Breitling Chrono to fix a few days ago. Now I thought I knew my way around a watch, but the only give away was the movement when the auto wieght had been removed and when I got it running I discovered that the Chrono functions were just for show. The case, dial, hands and band were easily as good as the original, real quality, I simply could not tell the difference. But fake it was.

Perhaps I should add that it wasn't cheap, I think around two hundred GBP when new, but cheap by Breitling standards.

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted February 3, 2011 - 10:58am

It does look good. The Diamond placement on the Dial is a little 'off' IMO but I compared the Rotors and they look identical to an N7 N.O.S. piece, if it was legit. LOL

There's also a used one located in Peru with Beige Dial.

Has anyone seen an ad depicting one?

 

el-ooose
Posted February 3, 2011 - 12:04pm

Not seen an ad but I have had a couple over the years, can you post a close up of the movement?

On the other hand why would you bother to fake this one. It would be just as easy to fake something that sells better and for more money.

Timemachines
Posted February 3, 2011 - 1:28pm

Very good point, It does seem like if someone was going to make a fake, then would'nt you fake a high grade watch that is affordable to all?

 What are the odds that it was only made for the asian market and not ever sold in other contries? Did Bulova select market differant watches?  Back in the 70's they may have tried it.  Just a thought.

 Mike... 

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted February 3, 2011 - 2:53pm

Why fake a Watch like this? gave that some thought:

It's easier to get Mr and Mrs Average Consumer to spend $150 on a Watch they think is real than to get them spend the same $150 on a Watch they know has to be fake at that price. IE: Rolex, Tag's etc ??.

Plus, there are some really strict 'Watchdogs' looking out for the knocked off high end stuff, this item may be slipping under the Radar ??.

Mike,

2nd pic, 1st row. The Day display appears written in Chinese.

el-oose

Difficult to get a good clean look at the Chinese movement.

2879 ETA -  Used Watch in Peru.

 

Chinese Movement.

Timemachines
Posted February 3, 2011 - 6:42pm

Just my opinion, but from the pics and the logic, I think it is real.  I have seen many bulovas with the sideways oval dial and I have one now (differant design same concept).  The movement looks like a bulova movement, dial and band looks right, BUT, I'm only looking at a picture of the watch.

 I guess it just makes sence to me that a person probably would not go through the tooling expence of making a fake Bulova, and probably sold in a differant market.

 When I was active in the NAWCC shows, the asians who came here to buy watches, they would buy lets say only solid white gold tank style watches because there was a high demand for them in asia, and at the time, no one here in the states were even interested. So maybe Bulova gave a spacific market what they wanted at the time, Not sure just a hunch. 

 Mike.

Geoff Baker
Posted February 3, 2011 - 7:38pm

Club 5000Panel Member

Peru model - I saw that thing this AM and was going to add it tonight, Mark, you beat me to it. I think that watch is genuine, that pitting cannot be faked, but you didn't load the pic that differentiates these two watches. I am convinced (Phillip? can you testify?) that Bulova made different watches for different areas of the world. I think they have in the last 10-15 years, but my wife won't let me go to Hong Kong to test my theory.

Now compare the two backs.....the stylized lady on "China" as opposed to a 'normal' back on "Peru"?

China is a knock off but if you all want to send me twenty bucks, I'll buy one....for the 'team'

geoff

 

el-ooose
Posted February 5, 2011 - 6:14am

Well it certainly looks like the real thing. Spanish date. For sure Bulova had some tie up in Germany in the 70's, lots of Accutron cases turn up that were made there, poor quality too. Accutron movements made in Switzerland and Japan.

NOVA
Posted February 21, 2011 - 11:31am

I have one of these (Hong Kong version), and I'd be happy to mail it to one of you for analysis.  Just let me know where to send it.

By the way, I have a 1964 diver that has the same back.  Here's a discussion and picture of that watch:  http://www.mybulova.com/search/node/diver%20type:forum 

shooter144's picture
shooter144
Posted February 21, 2011 - 11:46am

I just posted on Plains thread about this, China WILL go thru the expense to tool up and create fakes for almost anything, remember their tool up expenses really are nothing, govt owned and backed as their business is , and the market is huge !! They can make a knock off for pennies and sell it worldwide for a pretty good sum...Japan is a huge knock off market, the youth only cares if it LOOKS real, not if it IS real. Same market in China, Korea, Philippines and most of the former eastern Europe. HUGE market !!!

plainsmen
Posted February 21, 2011 - 11:55am

Club 5000Panel Member

Add an Accutron 214 to the list probably.... I'll let you know when I get it.

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted March 19, 2011 - 6:27am

ok, here We go.

17 Jewel 11 AOACD....or wait a second, is that an O? 11 AOACO?  hmmmm.

Rotor is always shown in the same position.

ruh  - roh, what's that??

N7 Automatic with Battery back up perhaps? or, does the rotor keep the battery charged these?

vintagebulova.com's picture
vintagebulova.com
Posted March 19, 2011 - 6:36am

Club 5000

What battery?

Jay

vintagebulova.com

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted March 19, 2011 - 7:16am

Last pic Jay, isnt the round Gold object with the ink stamp a battery?

Timemachines
Posted March 19, 2011 - 7:22am

No, Fifth, That it a mainspring barrel, not a battery.  You can see the barrel arbor coming through the plate in the center as you would expect.

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted March 19, 2011 - 9:55am

lol, my bad. I thought it was a battery.

Prime example as to why I leave the movements to You Guys.....but today I learned a little more.

Thanks.

Timemachines
Posted March 19, 2011 - 10:28am

No problem, thats how we learn , by sharing.  Mike..

shooter144's picture
shooter144
Posted March 19, 2011 - 3:15pm

Back in the '80s China was tossing out Rolex fakes that once opened were obviously fake, but exterior was exact. The interior was only SLIGHTLY less quality than a real Rolex (ie still very good) and again, EXACT with slightly less quality on the finishing of non esential ( for smoothness) parts. They will tool up and make a fake of almost anything. It costs nothing for them to do so with nearly forced labor completely controlled by the govt. I wouldnt chance it for a single $20....just look at all of the fake $150 Tissot watches on the bay....real ones for $150 vs many many fakes for the same, except no one bids on the fakes and the real ones ( we assume real anyway) always sell....Bulova is growing fast on the collectors market, we all see that , why wouldnt they fake them, simple watches selling for decent money, no brainer if fakes are your business.