1951 Square Automatic Beauty Any ID for this one?

Submitted by GVP on March 10, 2011 - 4:47am

 Firstly the case says L1, 10csc mvt rotor says L3...I've seen a couple of Bulovas with a 2 year gap is this right?

Secondly check out the photos, is this a beauty or what! Military hands and raised radium markers above the number positions.

Any idea of a model name before I add it as an Unknown. The quad angled crystal is no help as it fits 4/5 different models.  

FifthAvenueRes…
Posted March 10, 2011 - 5:53am

Nice Gary!

If You could post the Models given by the Crystal spec possibly We could ID through a process of elimantion, or at least narrow the choices?

WatchCrystals.net
Posted March 10, 2011 - 7:00am

Bryant , Franklin
2
CMS700F
 
RME199D
2
CMS2345 234
 
HMX234/1F

 

Duowind: H, I, K & L, Exeter, Franklin, Spencer
2
CMS725
 
RME199
2
MS2345 234
 
HMX234/1F?

 

???  Scott

GVP
Posted March 10, 2011 - 7:30am

 CMS700F indeed. Duo winds all had Duowind on the dial didn't, another `950 duowind I have and 2 other preciously have all had the 9AB movement too they so are they ruled out? Is the 10csc the duowind movement, not sure? This watch deserves a name though.

FifthAvenueRes…
Posted March 10, 2011 - 7:47am

Duowind would make sense - 1950 being the first Year of production.

Are any of the other model choices auto's?

GVP
Posted March 10, 2011 - 8:23am

 The duowind movements usually show a switch on the back and the rotors look connected differently. This 10csc rotor is very much like the later 10bpac fitting etc

WatchCrystals.net
Posted March 10, 2011 - 8:30am

I thought it was the "BRYANT?" (i.e. I saw an ad for one... but apparently never cropped it out? Sniff Dawg (MS Windows Search Dog) still has his nose to the :E drive after 30+/- so I think it's bed time, at 5:30am, Pacific???

 

:-)  Scott

FifthAvenueRes…
Posted March 10, 2011 - 9:17am

Have 3 Duo winders here, all dated 1950.

One waterproof Stainless Steel circular Case has a 10 AUC, Hour and Minute hands are identical w / Gilt Sweep center seconds.

All of the Dials match. (hashmark / numeral combination)

?

GVP
Posted March 10, 2011 - 10:00am

 Likely one of then...come on advert people get to work :)

mybulova_admin
Posted March 11, 2011 - 1:05am

I got nothing from the ads....the search continues.

GVP
Posted March 31, 2011 - 6:15am

 Bryant, Exeter or Spencer.  Like scott I have a feeling, but no proof it is the Bryant. All duo wind models I have seen have had the Duo Wind wording on the dial so I am ruling those out 95%.

FifthAvenueRes…
Posted March 31, 2011 - 6:32am

'BRYANT' /  'FRANKLIN' take the same Glass, and it's not a 'FRANKLIN'

'BRYANT' - question would be was the 'BRYANT' an auto?

Dial has all of the 'DUO WIND' characteristics (apart from stating 'DUO WIND')

1950 was the first Year for an automatic movement in a Bulova Case Gary - I'd expolore 'DUO WIND' there are many variants listed, none were given traditional model names.

GVP
Posted March 31, 2011 - 6:37am

 Not according to this new information though fifth. Mine has a glass pointed/4 way one the same dimensions as the one below 

FifthAvenueRes…
Posted March 31, 2011 - 6:55am

Yep,

Glass is orig or fitted at a later date?

Was the 'BRYANT' available before 1950? if so rule it out.

Based on the Movement in the Watch and the Dial characteristics My money would say this a 'DUO WIND'

...but that's only an opinion,

2c

GVP
Posted March 31, 2011 - 7:05am

 Hard to say. It is a perfect fit without any bonding and has a few small marks. The only way we are going to find this out is when an advert pops up isn't it.....dagnamit.

The CMS700F crystal was not in the 1952 catalogue (or the name listed) which I guess it wouldn't be if this is indeed the bryant of 1951 as i think they bought out crystals 2 years after?  I dont have a 55 catalog to look at but it shows in the 1960.

FifthAvenueRes…
Posted March 31, 2011 - 7:29am

Gary,

'53 would also make sense with the Dial - I've only seen the words 'DUO WIND' printed 1950 - 1952 after that time the words 'selfwinding' are found AND the automatics began to take on model names.

(didn't realise this was a '53)

Could be either or and would now lean toward 'BRYANT'. ...but, was it an auto?

 : )

definative question would be was the 'BRYANT' available before the 1950 introduction of automatic movements, if so it's most likely not a 'BRYANT'.

GVP
Posted March 31, 2011 - 7:34am

The Bryant model name doesn't appear in the 52 Catalog....which has a pretty good list of models

I'm sure, one day Jerin will pull out one of his crinkled little adds and find this beauty for us :)

FifthAvenueRes…
Posted April 4, 2011 - 8:47pm

...or a picture with the Name on the Dial  - 1950

NOVA
Posted April 4, 2011 - 9:41pm

I just picked up this one, which appears to be the same case.  Also called a Duo Wind.  Note the differences in the dials between all three watches shown so far.

Don't know the date of this one yet--50 something.

pghray
Posted January 2, 2012 - 10:25am

Hi Gary, I'm new to the forum.  Was trying to find information about the same watch you have.  Mine too is L1 selfwinding.  I've not looked inside because I'm not much of a watch guy, and dont want to mess it up. 

Daca102090
Posted January 2, 2012 - 1:14pm

Just this last month this was identified as a Spencer.  The ad is one of the 1953 color ads.

 

Reverend Rob
Posted January 2, 2012 - 1:19pm

If it helps any, the movement, based on an AS 1320 (1323 for sub second) ebauche, appeared in 1952. It has unidirectional winding, if memory serves, which would rule out Duowind, which used the Felsa Bidynator movements. 

FifthAvenueRes…
Posted January 2, 2012 - 3:28pm

Which explains the disappearance of the 'DUO WIND' Dial insignias' at around the same time - 1952.

'SPENCER' works David, nice find.

mybulova_admin
Posted January 2, 2012 - 6:42pm

Well done David and thanks to Plains for the advert.

Nice work!

Spencer it is. Gary can you add please (if already not) to the database at your leisure.

Daca102090
Posted January 2, 2012 - 7:27pm

Oh man, you guys are going to make me blush!! ;-}

pghray
Posted January 5, 2012 - 11:33am

Thank you so much!  As I stated earlier, I dont know much...ok anything about watches.  I inherited this watch 30 years ago and it has been in my safe untouched until a few days ago.  I'm confused about the L1 stamp.  Could it have been manufactured in 51 and was still being sold in 53?

Daca102090
Posted January 5, 2012 - 12:49pm

made in 1951 for sure. 

Bulova would have sold the same model for a number of years.  If sales started lagging sometimes they would simply rename the model then market it under the new name.

Doesn't help when the name for a specific model changes depending on the year it was made.

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