1929 Governor with wrong dial?

This sure looks like a Governor case to me, judging from the ad that's in the database (reproduced below for convenience), but does that dial look authentic?  Certainly, it doesn't match that ad.  It looks like it doesn't fit well in the case--sort off to one side. 

So, any thoughts on 1) whether this is a governor, and 2) whether that dial is for real?

10AL, 15J

1929

Bulova signed case, hinged case with 1927 patent date and dust cover

Unspecified metal content

Case serial #9354308

Movement serial #901531

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted March 22, 2011 - 4:50pm

1. Pass

2. I'll stick My neck out Lisa and say it's real as not all of the Dials in this era were 'Radium'.

The non luminous Dial characteristics would also correspond with the non luminous Hour and Minute Hands which look correct also as Minute Hand reaches perfectly into the track and doesn't fall short or overextend past.

Interesting Sweep seconds Hand, is that a Gold tip?

 : )

 

vintagebulova.com's picture
vintagebulova.com
Posted March 22, 2011 - 5:21pm

Club 5000

I do not think that the dial is original to the watch.

Jay

vintagebulova.com

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted March 22, 2011 - 5:40pm

1939 'Plain Dial' Revere

NOVA
Posted March 22, 2011 - 6:18pm

So, maybe that's where the dial came from, huh? Looks like I have a Governor that needs to go in the re-dial queue. I'm headed for VIP status with International.

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted March 22, 2011 - 8:02pm

Why say that?  maybe You have a 1939 Revere.

The question would be was the 10 AL correct for '39.......a shield is a shield afterall.

 : )

 

NOVA
Posted March 22, 2011 - 8:21pm

We have no examples in the database of the 10AL after 1931, which is why I assumed that, in this case, the shield indicated 1929.  That, and the fact that the case looks just like the Governors from that time period that are in our database.

Also, keep in mind that the dial doesn't really seem to fit the case.  One would think that, if it were a Revere case and a Revere dial, the two would fit together better than that.

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted March 22, 2011 - 8:58pm

I agree, at times the cradle block is slightly offset to center the movement. Maybe a different movement / dial ?

If the Dial were the only thing offset the Hands would rotate off center wouldn't they? the movement would have to be off center also.

I wouldn't automatically assume a swap on this Watch as if it is 1929  it is built in the 'time of change' for Bulova and if the 10AL can be placed in '39 then it's not a Banker. lol 

....are We having fun yet?

NOVA
Posted March 22, 2011 - 8:57pm

Would it not also be unusual to see a hinged case with a 1927 patent date and a movement dust cover in 1939?

mybulova_admin
Posted April 3, 2011 - 8:48pm

Club 5000Panel Member

No it wouldn't, they had stopped doing this by 1939 from what I can tell.

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted March 22, 2011 - 8:59pm

Yes, good point.

NOVA
Posted March 22, 2011 - 9:21pm

Okay, so, then maybe we could agree that all evidence points to the case and the movement dating to the late '20s  - early '30s?  Which means this movement, with it's shield symbol, dates to 1929.  And if we can agree on all that, then a review of the database and the ads certainly leads one to the Governor as a match on the case.  If there's no disagreement on that point, then we're back to where I thought we started, i.e., what's up with that dial?

 

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted March 22, 2011 - 9:48pm

?

You have a '29 Lone Eagle with the 13 AF? So do I, so does Wayne. The Dial is off, the Hands are off but it's obviously a production piece as there are more than one.

I wouldn't assume anything with Your Watch Lisa, does the condition of the Dial match the overall condition of the Watch?

Unless You simply hate it, then change it.

 

 :  )

P.S. If it were mine I wouldn't do anything with it, looks too original IMO.

If this watch were next to the 'oddball' LE2 and without knowing what I know I'd call the LE2 the imposter. If this is a redial it's a very good one, the Hand alignment to the Minute track is spot on.

NOVA
Posted March 23, 2011 - 5:05am

Is anyone willing to verify or deny that this is a Governor case?  If not a Governor, any ideas on what it is?

Wayne Hanley's picture
Wayne Hanley
Posted March 24, 2011 - 1:01am

I have a file of all the tonneau shaped watches that are in the on-site ads from 1924 to 1930 & cannot find one dial that has the outer minute chapter. However, the font pattern of the painted numbers on the dial do match the 1939 Ambassador A style font, although they are attached numbers (first match I stubled onto). 1929 Governor Case, later dial.

Wayne

NOVA
Posted March 24, 2011 - 9:26am

Thanks, Wayne.  I added it to the database as a Governor but most likely one with the wrong dial.

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted April 3, 2011 - 8:37pm

New 1935 ad in the database - 'REVERE'

 

NOVA
Posted April 3, 2011 - 8:43pm

I don't think the Revere case is a match, plus the hinged case with the 1927 patent date and 1929 movement do not appear to support a 1935 watch. 

mybulova_admin
Posted April 3, 2011 - 8:53pm

Club 5000Panel Member

1929 Governor is also my vote. Sorry I just realised that the movement has a serial number putting it as 1929 as they stopped putting serial numbers on movements in 1925.

IMO, everything is original except the dial...but then again you just never know 100% with Bulova.

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted April 4, 2011 - 4:28am

Exactly, this is a learning process as We have shown on numerous occasions as of late that because a Watch hasn't been seen before doesn't mean it did not exist.

I stll say this is one of those types and not a redial. Time will tell.

The bezel opening on the Case in question is inconsistant with the 1929 ad for a 'GOVERNOR' shown on the right it looks much wider at the 9 <-> 3 position and more consitant with the opening style of the 'REVERE' shown on the left. But, then again the ad could be mis-leading....

Glass dimensions could help (?) as a lot of these older Tonnaus (sp) are similar in style but differ in design.

2c

mybulova_admin
Posted April 4, 2011 - 4:46am

Club 5000Panel Member

What year ad is the Revere from?

The movement is definitely 1929. What worries me is that this type of dail has not been seen before (not on this site at least) on a 1929 watch.

NOVA
Posted April 4, 2011 - 8:18am

Since it was Fifth's Governor in the database that convinced me mine was a Governor--at least the case, anyway--I thought a side-by-side comparison would be appropriate.  For each shot, the top image is Fifth's Governor, the bottom shot is my watch. 

NOVA
Posted April 4, 2011 - 8:29am

I don't think Fifth's, or any other Governor in the database, exactly resembles the ad for the Governor.  The illustration appears more elongated and angular than any we have ID'd as that model.

As for the Revere, not only does the time period not coincide with the particulars of my watch (i.e., dates, case style), but the case is simply too different.  The lugs on the Revere do not continue from the case but rather are attached.  The case is much thicker around the dial.  The case is less elongated.

 

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted April 4, 2011 - 9:51am

admin,

The printed numerals on Nova's Watch are consistant with a 1927 Ladies Model I own, so it's possible the Dial did exist.

Nova,

The ad is not a very good example of the Case design in question, and does look identical to the Governor agreed.

Plain Dial Governor (?) or unseen Model.

The Dial is too consistant with the period to say it's not and the Hands showing are definately period.

Wayne Hanley's picture
Wayne Hanley
Posted April 4, 2011 - 1:46pm

Fifth

The font style on the dial of the 1927 ladies model watch is nowhere near Lisa's watch. Compare the fonts.

What is the source of the so-called Governor ad? I don't think it's an ad picture.

Wayne

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted April 4, 2011 - 2:35pm

Wayne,

You're right, the numerals are close but not a match as I thought.

I don't know where the ad image came from (?) it certainly doesn't look like a Governor.

But, I still think Lisa's Watch is authentic, which in the end is only an opinion....

 

NOVA
Posted April 4, 2011 - 2:51pm

Wayne, you posted that picture of the Governor when Fifth's Governor was discussed.  Look at his 1929 Governor listing in the DB, and you'll see it on p. 2 of the discussion.

You cited it as having coming from "Complete Price Guide To Watches page 714, bottom left column".

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted April 4, 2011 - 2:53pm

I take that back, here's the Dial. '42 Stamford.

: )

NOVA
Posted April 4, 2011 - 2:59pm

That sure looks like the dial to me!   Mystery solved, I think.  I've got a Governor case with a Stamford dial.

Anyone have a spare Governor dial they want to sell?

shooter144's picture
shooter144
Posted April 4, 2011 - 3:11pm

cept that dial doesnt look to fit that Stamford very well....

 

NOVA
Posted April 4, 2011 - 3:30pm

I think it just needs to be straightened a bit.

shooter144's picture
shooter144
Posted April 4, 2011 - 4:29pm

LoL would have to bend the legs to get it straight...but if the movement has a fitting ring (not sure of proper nomenclature) missing...

NOVA
Posted April 4, 2011 - 6:13pm

Actually, I've found that many dials will pivot very slightly, and that usually resolves the kind of problem you're seeing here.  No limb surgery or fitting rings required.

Wayne Hanley's picture
Wayne Hanley
Posted April 4, 2011 - 3:22pm

Lisa

You are exactly right on the source of the Governor picture. The problem with that picture is that it has weathered too many copy & printing editions through the years that the case has grown so fat that if you compare a suspected Governor watch to the picture, you will doubt the watch, rather than the price guide.  

I made this mistake on Stephen's slick bezeled tonneau & told him it wasn't a Governor. I was wrong!

Wayne

 

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted April 4, 2011 - 4:18pm

Problem with the picture is the source.

The price guide has made mistakes before, namely showing a Bulova A-17A and calling it a WWII era watch.

Do We have an actual ad for the 'GOVERNOR' ?

Wayne Hanley's picture
Wayne Hanley
Posted April 4, 2011 - 5:36pm

Fifth

I have never seen a Governor ad. The price guiide pic was the naming doc for my Governor.

Wayne