Bulova President watch ?

Another watch I have just purchased on ebay and awaiting delivery . Referred to as a President which does appear to be the only watch which has the wandering seconds but the case looks like a 1930 Gladiator.  All I know at the moment is that the movement is a 10AN , with a hinged back and glass covering the movement. Been dated by the seller as 1927 but not sure about that as the wandering seconds did not appear until the early 1930's.

bourg01
Posted October 5, 2011 - 2:48pm

Panel Member

Looks like you got a Gladiator case with 10AN movement with the President dial. This dial does not belong in this watch case. What we call a Frankenbully.

el tel
Posted October 5, 2011 - 3:00pm

Being English and not speaking the American language , can you explain where the expression  Frankenbully comes from .  :-)

 

terry

simpletreasures
Posted October 5, 2011 - 3:26pm

Fraken, as in Frakenstein (being manmade, but not original). Bully, for Bulova, like a "nickname".

el tel
Posted October 5, 2011 - 4:08pm

Thanks for the explanation , it appears I need to find a gladiator watch movement in a President case and swap them over !  Mind you I think they go well together and are in good condition. Is it possible that Bulova did a bit of a mix and match ?

terry

bourg01
Posted October 5, 2011 - 4:29pm

Panel Member

Hi El Tel,

No, they wouldn't have done that. Here's the real President, I just sold a bit back.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/180722530085?ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1562.l2649

 

Wayne Hanley's picture
Wayne Hanley
Posted October 5, 2011 - 5:28pm

El Tel

I have a 1932 Bulova President case. It opens & closes well. New glass crystal.

I would be willing to trade my 1932 Bulova President case only, for your Gladiator case even up.

Dystopiologist
Posted October 6, 2011 - 1:14am

 "Frankenbully" is a harsh term! It conjures up a nightmare collection of parts cobbled together, where here you actually have a watch that approaches correctness. 9 out of 10 people wouldn't see a flaw.

But the dial is definitely wrong to the case; even without knowing Bulova specifics, most watch collectors would notice that. 

simpletreasures
Posted October 6, 2011 - 2:58am

In this case (pun intended), it probably is a little harsh. But we've had some examples listed here that describes the watch perfectly. What the general concensus is that any Bulova watch that has been modified by movement swap, dial change, incorrect hands, etc. is in effect a "frankenbully"...

el tel
Posted October 6, 2011 - 3:06am

Despite the fact that I have a Frankenbully I paid less than a third of the price of the president quoted above which makes me feel a lot better.  Thanks for the offer of a change in cases Wayne but I will hold fire for the moment . Thanks again for your comments .

terry

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted October 6, 2011 - 6:42am

it's a Bulova 'PRESINATOR'...."I"ll be back".

I find it odd that someone would swap the 2, could this be an unseen Model?

mybulova_admin
Posted October 6, 2011 - 7:28am

Club 5000Panel Member

It certainly does not look that much out of place, so it could very well be another unknown.

I have some more ads coming soon. Lets hope that they may contain this one.

OldTicker
Posted October 6, 2011 - 7:52am

The minutes track is shaped like it should be in a President's case,  at least you have a 100% Bulova Frankenbully! ; )

 

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted October 6, 2011 - 8:02am

heh

el tel
Posted October 6, 2011 - 8:27am

The plot thickens , I have received the watch and the wandering hands movement is dated 1930 exactly the same date as the Gladiator case it is in. I did not think that this movement was produced until 1932 but the date marking is either 1930 or 1940 and I believe 1940 would be too late . The movement fits snugly in the case so possibly it is an unknown model ? The watch is also running and keeping good time.

terry

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted October 6, 2011 - 9:05am

'30 seems early.

The wandering seconds 'PRESIDENT' doesn't appear until '34'ish ...(?)

el tel
Posted October 6, 2011 - 9:29am

I agree , have checked again  and the marking is what I call the " grecian urn " symbol and was only used in 1930 and 1940 . There is also a number on the movement 579670.

terry

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted October 6, 2011 - 9:59am

Terry,

the symbol is referred to as 'Omega' and You are correct, it would be 1930 and not 1940, IMO.

bourg01
Posted October 6, 2011 - 1:05pm

Panel Member

The plot is not getting thicker here. The movement date only confirms it's from 1930, not a President with wandering seconds year. That would be 1932 for the 1st year they came out. So, 1932-34 President dial on a 1930 movement in a Gladiator case. The 10AN movement was used in both models.

No matter how you look at it, it's not a original Gladiator, nor is it a President.  Please don't take this the wrong way as I am not trying to diminish what you have here. What you have is the potential to own 2 rarer Bulova's that are both highly demanded by collectors.

I'd be looking for a Gladiator dial & hands for that case and movement. Then I'd go after a 1932 10AN movement and a President case for the dial, secs dial and the hands. Might take a while but it would be worth it to have both as they should be.

 

el tel
Posted October 7, 2011 - 2:01am

bourg , thanks for your comments , just to clarify what you are saying do we have a 1930 Gladiator case with its 1930 movement and someone fitted the wandering hands mechanism and face of a President  at a later date ?  I assumed that the wandering hands mechanism would be different to the standard movement. Is it just the case that a revolving disc is fitted to the seond hand mechanism ?

The irony is that the two bits fit so well together I feel reluctant to part them after what may be 50 plus years together.  :-)

terry

Dystopiologist
Posted October 7, 2011 - 3:39am

 It may well have left the store that way, brand new! I can see some smarmy customer saying: "Well, I like this case - but you've only got a sale if I get that little window-seconds-thingie. . ."

Someday we'll find it's alter-ego: The period-modified President case with the Gladiator dial & movement: The "Bride of Frankenbully".

bourg01
Posted October 7, 2011 - 7:34am

Panel Member

Hi Terry,

Yes,  The case is definatley a Gladiator which dates to 1930 as does your movement, so I's say they should stay together because they match. The movement is not special to the wandering seconds.

The wandering seconds is merely a printed disc friction fitted on the sub seconds pinion under the dial. If you were to remove the hands and dial you could then remove the disc.  Once that's done the movement would accept the correct dial, hands and sub second hand and the Gladiator would be restored to original.

I'm not saying you have to part them, but since I restore watches and can do the work required, that's what I would do. You still have a cool old watch that is most certainly worth what you paid for it

mybulova_admin
Posted October 7, 2011 - 7:38am

Club 5000Panel Member

el, does the dial look redone, does there appear to be any marking on the dial that would indicate the dial was not original to this case. These are factors we should be looking at rather than dismissing the off chance that may have a new model here, something that predates both known models or was simply just a hybrid of both that Bulova released.

El, any chance of a clear shot of the dial outside the case?

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted October 7, 2011 - 9:34am

Exactly,

Wayne's 'PRESIDENT' shown above appears to have a 'GLADIATOR' Dial, noting the centrally located Minutes register, yet no one has called foul.

and again....

'PRESIDENT' as advertised.

and again...

 

 

el tel
Posted October 7, 2011 - 9:31am

admin , I have just purchased a light box as my attempts at taking photos previously were dreadful !  Hopefully Rugby world cup permitting I will post one over the weekend. Thanks again for the helpful responses

terry

Wayne Hanley's picture
Wayne Hanley
Posted October 7, 2011 - 3:48pm

Go Allblacks!

el tel. Since Fifth doubts my 1932 President I'll just have to keep it. Consider the trade cancelled. LOL

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted October 7, 2011 - 5:33pm

if We doubt this Watch Wayne We have to doubt any variation.

el tels Watch is all Bulova, let's not write it off so quickly although Shawn does make a valid point that the first wandering seconds 'PRESIDENT' is not seen until 1932 (is there an ad?) .....I thought 1934.

A production Date on the movement of 1930 doesn't necessarily  mean it was cased in '30.

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted October 8, 2011 - 1:05pm

Spare Me, why were You willing to part with the 'PRESIDENT' Case ?

Wayne Hanley's picture
Wayne Hanley
Posted November 6, 2011 - 2:53pm

OK I'll spare you (the explanation)!

What is not authentic about a 1932 10AN 21j movement with umbrella shaped T symbol?

bourg01
Posted October 7, 2011 - 10:18am

Panel Member

Jeesh! I give up.

Wayne Hanley's picture
Wayne Hanley
Posted October 7, 2011 - 3:50pm

I'm with you Shawn some of the speculation that goes on here would make Joseph Frankenbully roll over in his grave.

bourg01
Posted October 7, 2011 - 5:34pm

Panel Member

hi Wayne, Thx for the comment. The grins and giggles I just got from that just made  my day.

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted October 8, 2011 - 1:06pm

* see prior post.

el tel
Posted October 10, 2011 - 10:42am

I have taken photos of the movement outside the case but cannot download photo on to here, not sure what I am doing wrong !

 

terry

simpletreasures
Posted October 11, 2011 - 7:37am

Terry, "C:\Users\TERRY\Pictures\2011-10-08 watch\watch 006.TIF" is your computers hard drive designation. We can't access your computer.

el tel
Posted October 11, 2011 - 11:05am

sorry about that , thought it would give a link to my Picasa photo software. Back to the drawing board .

terry

el tel
Posted October 11, 2011 - 12:04pm

re the above photo , thanks for who ever suggested the imageshack uploader as it seems to have worked. As requested by admin this is the image of dial outside the case.

terry 

plainsmen
Posted November 6, 2011 - 12:03pm

Club 5000Panel Member

I'll buy or trade for the President Case!

bourg01
Posted November 6, 2011 - 7:48pm

Panel Member

Well Boys, this has just become another rambleing forum based on speculation and guessing, So , I just bought a wandering seconds dial from a President and I will build you all a wandering seconds Ambassador or maybe a Senator. How about that? Then you can really  argue about what could be real! The dial I bought could match this case, as it has a rectangular minute register, not curved at the top and bottom like the President's. So I'll build a "Frankenbully"  just to prove a point. Vintage jeweller's/ watchmaker's did do the same thing and Bulova documentaion sucks.