Wow... talk about the most over used statement of the millenium.  I can't tell you how many EXTREMELY RARE common bulova's I've seen for sale recently.

Oh.. look... there's another EXTREMELY RARE 40's senator... holy moly I better jump on it as you never see that model...

I want to slap the EXTREMELY RARE face of those sellers... haha!

Posted January 15, 2012 - 2:54am

Probably had a starting price of $1,500 as well.

captainclock12 (not verified)
Posted January 15, 2012 - 3:05am

Yeah it seems that a lot of those sellers on eBay that buy up a small lot of antique/vintage watches at estate sales usually end up admitting at some point in time during their listings that they aren't watch experts and that they don't neccesarily know what they have or whether or not they run as they never bother to test them out of fear of breaking them and yet they choose to list the watch as "extremely rare" and have the starting bit or buy it now price set at some outrageous price that isn't even close to what the watch is worth. So yeah I agree with you sometimes I do want to knock some sense into some of those people.

Posted January 15, 2012 - 9:52am

Most over used words on EBay:

Art Deco,


Extremely Rare.



Original (?WhatTheHell does that mean)

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
Posted January 15, 2012 - 10:10am

O*RIG*I*NAL  [uh-rig-uh-nl]


belonging or pertaining to the origin  or beginning of something, or to a thing at its beginning: The book still has its original binding.
new; fresh; inventive; novel: an original way of advertising.
arising or proceeding independently of anything else: an original view of history.
capable of or given to thinking or acting in an independent, creative, or individual manner: an original thinker.
created, undertaken, or presented for the first time: to give the original performance of a string quartet.



add: "I don't know" and "overwound"

Posted January 15, 2012 - 10:30am

Rhetorical question, but thanks anyway.......

Posted January 15, 2012 - 10:08am

  My reaction!!!

Posted January 15, 2012 - 10:15am

It's called puffery, and it is a routine, accepted advertising practice.  "Puffery refers to an exaggeration or statement that no reasonable person would take as factual. It often occurs in the context of advertsing and promotional testimonials." 

It should not be confused with statements of fact.

Posted January 15, 2012 - 10:24am

I prefer "Puffery" in my pastries.

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
Posted January 15, 2012 - 10:41am

Which go very well with the ...


Posted January 15, 2012 - 11:46am

Here's how I would break down Bob's examples:

1. Art Deco - has a very specific historical meaning, and therefore is a fact, open to challenge unless used in the context of "Art Deco style" rather than of the Art Deco era.

2.  Vintage - debatable, but probably not well established enough in regard to a particular date range to be considered fact

3.  Extremely Rare - clearly subjective puffery

4.  Mint - debatable, but I would argue that it has a specific, well-documented meaning in regard to the condition of watches and, is, therefore factual

5.  Running - factual, albeit a poor choice of wording.  Nevertheless, I think everyone knows what is meant by the term in regard to a watch.

6.  Original -  This one is tough, unless there's more to the use of the word, such as "original condition", or "original parts".   "All original" would pretty clearly imply that nothing about the watch has been changed from its original manufacture.  Calling a dial that has been painted pink an "original dial" is clearly factual and problematic.  Otherwise, used by itself, the word is probably too vague to win in court.

Posted January 15, 2012 - 11:08am

The one I don't get is "curvex".  What does that mean and how is it supposed to make me want to buy the watch?  Where did that term come from?

vintagebulova.com's picture
Posted January 15, 2012 - 11:15am

Club 5000

Curvex refers to specific models manufactured by Gruen.  On EBay it has been used by some to indicate any curved watch. 



Elgin Doug
Posted January 15, 2012 - 12:45pm

But even that has become completely corrupted! 

The other day, I saw an Elgin listed as 'curvex' which I know FOR A FACT (since I won two of them) has a flat back.  It has no curves to it at all, being one of the most rectilinear watches I own. 

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
Posted January 15, 2012 - 11:17am

Gruen -


 The most famous Gruen wristwatch was the Curvex. These watches are one of the greatest examples of 1930s streamlined design. The patent for the movement was applied for (in both Switzerland and the U.S.) in 1929. U.S. patent 1,855,952 was granted on April 26, 1932 to Emile Frey of Bienne, Switzerland, but assigned to the Gruen Watch Company. It was later reissued as Re. 20,480 under Gruen President Benjamin Katz's name in 1937, after Frey's death. The first watches went on sale in 1935.

Posted January 15, 2012 - 11:23am

Very interesting, boys.  I'm glad to know that.  Would tend to make me think that "curvex" has a very specific, factual meaning, and, therefore, is widely improperly used on the Bay.  Of course, one could argue in opposition that it has been so widely and regularly used incorrectly that it now has an accepted meaning different from the original.

Posted January 15, 2012 - 11:32am

Interesting history of the Curvex here:  http://www.pixelp.com/gruen/1929.html

The first watch shown in the Curvex discussion looks an awful lot like the "Drivers" model I posted recently.

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
Posted January 15, 2012 - 11:42am

Yes, and the Ladies model is a spitting image for the Bulova 'DEBUTANTE' from the same era.


The liberal use of the term 'Art Deco' gets My Goat, particularly when the Watch is dated  post 1939. (when the period ended for those not playing from Home)

The "Art Deco Movement" (1925 to 1939) was founded by members of the French Artists' collective known as the "La Société des artistes décorateurs" following the Paris Exposition Internationale des Arts Décoratifs et Industriels held in 1925 and was originally referred to as "Style Moderne". it wasn't until the 1960s that English Art Historian Bevis Hillier first coined the term  "Art Deco."

Posted January 15, 2012 - 11:51am

Yes, agreed, except I do think you could use "Art Deco" in a way that would not be problematic, such as describing the item as "Art Deco style".  The problem on eBay is that sellers simply state "Art Deco" in the listing title, and that, I think, is a misstatement of fact.

Elgin Doug
Posted January 15, 2012 - 5:55pm

Essentially, in Ebay usage, any watch that was made before the 'big chunky' 1970s is 'Art Deco'.

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
Posted January 15, 2012 - 7:19pm

lol !

vintagebulova.com's picture
Posted January 15, 2012 - 11:35am

Club 5000

If you scroll down a bit you'll get to the Ristside which is the same type of case as the Bulova Drivers.



Posted January 15, 2012 - 11:41am

In that discussion of the Ristside, there's an interesting paragraph that I suspect of being equally applicable to Bulova and the general concept of the "driver's" watch.  Many models are advertised as "drivers" watches, but they probably were never intended as such.

". . . .Some sellers seem to think any watch with hinged or hidden lugs is a driver's model, even if it is round! The style of strap attachment does not make a watch a driver's model. The true driver's watches are all rectangular, but have much more extreme curves than a normal Curvex. Except for the two models with hinged lugs, these watches are impossible to wear normally on top of the wrist."

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
Posted January 15, 2012 - 1:05pm

The Gruen "Drivers" style Wristwatch is actually named the 'WRISTSIDE' - interestingly enough, which should reflect upon the MyBulova.com database listing of such.

: )

Posted January 15, 2012 - 1:11pm

According to the Gruen site, these watches were unsuccessful and, therefore, did not stay around long.  So, we may never come up with an ad that gives an actual model name.

Posted January 15, 2012 - 6:55pm

Panel Member

Lisa, I'm still inclined to go with your Bulova as a "Driver's" watch or "Wristside" as another has commented but since Cooksey's has it in print as a "driver's"  watch, I'm still good with that call. Gruen's "Curvex" line was patented for their design and the movements that had curved bridge plates to accomodate the dramatic curvature of some of the later designs. Early curvex watches used a regular flat bridged movement.