FifthAvenueRestorations's picture

Yes, I'm bringing it...

Far too many Watches are being entered into the database labeled as a variant while not matching the ad showing what the variant is.

What is a variant? - A variant is known Model in a very specific configuration.

If a Watch entering the database is not configured exactly the same as the variant depicted in the ad how can it be the named variant ??????


Your very best answers please Boys and Girls, I'd love to hear them.


Elgin Doug
Posted February 15, 2012 - 9:47pm

So, are we talking about, for example, the rose gold, exploding numeral Senator prior to the discovery of the ad? Or the one with the dial similar to the President F? 


Posted February 15, 2012 - 9:51pm


Case, Case Color, Dial, Movement Jewel Count....Picture the watch with out the band, Very few are Original, and how would we know??

The ad's in the database conflict that point, with the exception of the Tuxedo/Craftsman, (the $100.00 price proves that)

Many ad's also state that they are offered in both a strap & bracelet, but the model variant stays the same.

The star rating is to ID the watch, not to rate it as 100% NOS.

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
Posted February 15, 2012 - 10:01pm


Take a look at the 40's 'SENATOR' ads and the late 1950's 'HIS EXCELLENCY' Watches, many variants are based on the mount only.

It's much cleaner to Name a Watch a 'SENATOR' than to Name its variant - if the variant is named it should match the ad 100%

the mid - late 1930's 'AMERICAN CLIPPER' is a classic example...

Elgin Doug
Posted February 15, 2012 - 10:08pm

AH!  I see where you're going.  For example, then, we'd call the Senator case with the 'President 'F''-like dial just a Senator, until we found an ad that depicted it and called it 'Senator'F'', or something like that?

That certainly makes sense.

Posted February 15, 2012 - 10:16pm

Yes I surrender, its a WaterTight and thats it :)

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
Posted February 15, 2012 - 10:30pm

haha, actually I'm trying to make a point of the straps and bracelets the Watches are depicted on in ads naming the variant.

The best example I can come up with is the late 1950's 'HIS EXCELLENCY' series.

An identical Watch can be shown on a metal expansion band in one ad as Variant "A" and on Leather in another ad named variant "B" - Same Watch.


As with Case Colors and Dial variants the straps the Watches were sold on can also be the variant.

If the ad for Variant "A" shows a Watch on a metal bracelet and the Watch entering the database as variant "A" is on Leather it cannot be correct. Drop the variant letter, We know what the Watch is.

Elgin Doug
Posted February 15, 2012 - 10:37pm

In these two ads, the same watch - i.e. the same PICTURE - is called  'His Excellency "A"' in the first, and 'His Excellency "EW"' in the second, unless there's something in the text that otherwise distinguishes them.

Posted February 15, 2012 - 10:43pm

Unless I am missing something here, In your example, the "variant" differences are Lugs, Case color, Dial color...I don't see one here with the same Lugs, Case color, and Dial but a different strap/band?

Going through the 1930 ads...

American Clipper Tan Pigskin strap $29.75

American Clipper Safety Link Bracelet $33.75

Senator offered in White, Yellow, or Combination of White & Yellow.

Ben Hur offered in both Engraved & Plain Bezel

Right Angle 7 Handsome models...different Dials/bands and price, No A,B,C,D,E,F,G variants.

That is as far as I got...

Posted February 16, 2012 - 12:49am

Food for thought....

If we got rid of the "Star" rating system we have now and went to a simple "Yes/No" on the qualifier's to confirm a watch, would that be an answer??

Movement info (IE Jewel count)...matches ad...Yes/No

Case Shape/Color, accepted Bulova cases...matches ad...Yes/No

Dial, original or redone to near original...matches ad...Yes/No

Year...Within acceptable known ad range 2+(-) years...Yes/No....(The Elephant in the room still staring at us is the case serial number)

Next to each qualifier will give you the answer of Yes/No votes=Rating

Maybe with a system like this, **all contributing members (**Key words), will be able to vote as a "panel" after a couple months of learning??

I personally think we need to expand our panel, and have seen this in the past few days with the many comments that have been made by "non panel" members. The willingness is out there, and when it comes to the "designated panel" commenting on subjects like this, except for a few, (like me : D, and the others you all have seen posting here the past few days), many don't.

Maybe by rethinking the way we do things here, and establishing some guidelines for everyone to use will help end the constant bickering?


Posted February 16, 2012 - 4:49am

Club 5000Panel Member

I tried that aleady and the majority voted to keep it to panel members only.

Jim Townsend
Posted February 16, 2012 - 4:35am

Is it just me or does Fifth think he is  the Bulova god? After reading many of his post on differnt watches he strikes me as a man that is and never will be wrong. Hmmmmm  i like Tickers idea

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
Posted February 16, 2012 - 5:43am


It's just You...


Perhaps the 'HIS EXCELLENCY' series is a little confusing. The 'AMERICAN CLIPPER' Watches are easier to digest.

There are 2 variants of the 'AC' both identical Watches, same Case color, same Dial. - One appears on a Leather strap one on a Gold bracelet.

"F" is on a Bracelet and I think "A" (?) is on Leather.

The 1940's  'SENATOR's are the same.


it's not about the 3 Star rating system, it's about correctly naming a variant.

If variant "X" is a Watch on a Gold bracelet a Members Watch matching the ad but on a Leather strap cannot be the "X"'s that simple.

Jim Townsend
Posted February 16, 2012 - 7:16am

Say fifth do you do redial work?