Bulova 1920 -Unknown

Model ID rating explained.
0
Manufacture Year: 
1921
Movement Model: 
Unknown
Movement Jewels: 
15
Case Serial No.: 
1001754
Case shape: 
Other
Case Manufacturer: 
American Standard
Gender: 
Ladies
Additional Information: 

I inherited this watch and would like to know more about it.  There is no indication on the exterior of any maker;  only on the works inside the case did I find "Bulova W. Co   3 adj  15 jewels  SWISS" clearly visible (at the bottom, slightly to the right, in the open case picture). Also, on the works, is engraved "FAVREW Co."  (at the top, slightly to the left, in the same picture).   I found no date code symbol anywhere, so the date of 1924 I entered is pure conjecture.   Can anyone help me?

Not For Sale
Bulova watch
Bulova watch
Bulova watch
Bulova Watch
Reverend Rob's picture
Reverend Rob
Posted November 11, 2012 - 6:29pm

Panel Member

Just a thought, the two watch companies engraved on this movt could be from two different watches. If someone replaced a bridge that happened to contain another companies engraving, we would get this result. Or have we seen this before? I seem to recall an old Bulova movt in the archive with two names on it, or am I going nuts?

mybulova_admin
Posted February 17, 2013 - 12:54am

Club 5000Panel Member

I have seen it before.

William Smith's picture
William Smith
Posted June 27, 2014 - 3:14am

Club 5000Panel Member

Think we have a couple examples w/ two companies or two names, one being FAVRE and other Bulova.  See 1920 Lady Maxim for one example.  

Root record shows entry of 1921, but main title showing 1920.
Member: jrplep

Manufacture Year: 

 1921 Movement Model: 

 Unknown Movement Jewels: 

15

 

I think 1920 or maybe 1919 for subject watch.....   Checking other records w/ FAVRE on Bulova mvnts...and Richard has a Rubiayat w/ P Droz also on one of the bridges.

bobbee's picture
bobbee
Posted June 27, 2014 - 6:47am

Other examples seen are stamped with the name  "Tissot", "Etienne" and "Liengme".

Liengme is Henri Liengme & Co. Switzerland. From the town of Cormoret, first registered in 1897.

Etienne would appear to be Etienne Mathey, Biel, Switzerland. Registered in 1898.

Tissot made in-house movements that have been ued in many other brands, as talked about here: http://www.mybulova.com/watches/1920-precision-6467   and here is another:http://www.mybulova.com /watches/1918-unknown-5104

Bulova also used Wadsworth cases for their w/w and p/w models, as seen in the ads.

There is little known about the early Bulova, but more is coming to light. Like Bulova made wrist watches before pocket watches.

These watches using other movements appears go against the company timeline claims, that they were making their own movements in 1912. If they were, where are these watches?  We would at least see movements. Unless we are getting it horribly wrong, Bulova first made wrist watches in 1916, the Rubaiyats. Then we have seen men's Trench examples of the Rubaiyats and Hudson Maxim. Could these be the first mens w/w?  

Earliest Bulova signed movements are in Rubaiyat watches, and Bulova claim first use of that name in 1916.

Why would Bulova be using other maker's movements in their watches (and they definitely were) if they had their own factory producing movements as claimed?

William Smith's picture
William Smith
Posted June 27, 2014 - 11:53am

Club 5000Panel Member

maybe they were doing both?  Just a thought...but where are they...the 1916-1918 Bulova "only" movements.  

bobbee's picture
bobbee
Posted June 27, 2014 - 12:19pm

We see the "Rubaiyat" Bulova-made movement, but this is 1916 at the very, very earliest.

We see these, but nothing earlier. That "tells" us that there is nothing earlier, surely?

 

William Smith's picture
William Smith
Posted June 27, 2014 - 12:27pm

Club 5000Panel Member

I think that may be true, or we just havent found any examples yet....or there are examples which we don't recognize as J Bulova orgin or involvement.

Reverend Rob's picture
Reverend Rob
Posted June 27, 2014 - 1:49pm

Panel Member

Rubaiyat was registered by Bulova in 1917, so maybe that's our starting point?

I seem to recall in previous Bulova history discussions that Bulova didn't make it's first movts, this was much later. They always used ebauches and modified them, first entirely in Switzerland, and then in the US. This was followed by the first US made movts, designed and executed by Bulova. It costs millions of dollars to design and execute a movt calibre, so this makes perfect sense. 

Every Rubaiyat movt I have seen is a modified ebauche. 

bobbee's picture
bobbee
Posted June 27, 2014 - 2:08pm

It is so excrutiatingly hard to find information on Bulova this early, I reach near despair when searching sometimes!

I'll keep on it though.

William Smith's picture
William Smith
Posted August 29, 2014 - 2:34pm

Club 5000Panel Member

There are some similarities between subject "Unknown", and this "Percision" watch located here.

1. Case shape (ignoring engraving on subject "Unknown")

2. Some of the insid back case hallmarks- "American Standard Warrented 25 Years" 
Subject Inside Case Back                                Percision Inside Case Back

3. There are no calibre marking on either movement.

The movement in subject watch is hallmarked w/ two makers: Bulova and Favre
The movement in linked Percision is hallmakred w/ two makers: Bulova and Tissot
Subject watch has no wording on dial.
Percision has "Bulova Percision" on dial.

Check out the relative size of the bow, crown and attachments below the 6 o'clock position on both watches.  They look very similar.  
Subject Unknown                                                      Percision 

The only thing I can see which led to the "Percision" ID is that word appearing on the dial (right).  We have seen Bulova watches w/ wording on dials which is part of a model name, wording which is a feature of a watch, and wording associated with a "series" of models. Sometimes this wording doesn't coorelate to the model name.  Sometimes it does.

I don't think we have "matching" ads for either watch.  Lisa has a "Percision" watch which is also marked "Bulova and Favre" on the movement

Is it a stretch to "guess" that subject watch could be a tentative "Percision" even though the dial is unsinged?  ....or should the linked "Percision" possibly be ID'ed as an Unknown like subject watch?
The wording on the dial is driving the linked Percision ID in both Lisa's example and linked example above.