Bulova 1930 Arline

4/10 votes
Model ID rating explained.
2.505
Manufacture Year: 
1930
Movement Model: 
6P
Movement Jewels: 
15
Movement Serial No.: 
111607
Case Serial No.: 
0084010
Case shape: 
Tonneau
Case Manufacturer: 
Bulova
Crystal Details: 
1 in. long x 1/2 wide oval
Gender: 
Ladies
Additional Information: 

Unknown Date (1930?)  Arline?

Bulova Ladies Watch 14K white gold

inside back case = 0084010

Bulova Quality Filled

Fifteen Jewels Swiss

Bulova Watch Co

111607

TWO 2  ADJ

Hinged Case

no movement symbol visible

Not For Sale
Bulova 1930 Arline watch
1930 Bulova watch
1930 Bulova watch
1930 Bulova watch
mybulova_admin
Posted June 23, 2015 - 6:05am

Club 5000Panel Member

Question is it at all possible that the case serial number in fact begins with a 6 and not 0. I have a great example of this sitting in my hand right now. The top half of the 6 is somewhat missing giving the apearance or a small o

We often see this first number mis-stamped. So I believe the serial number is actually 6084010

So with that in mind, I believe its a 1926 Bulova Unknown. The Bulova Priscilla is close but the engraving varies.

 

mybulova_admin
Posted June 23, 2015 - 6:17am

Club 5000Panel Member

Actually, it is entirely possible that this still is an 'Arline' as its the only match for the case. There is nothing else that is a match. So based on the case serial number actually beinging with a 0 (1930) then what I think we have is a Bulova 1930 Arline with a 1926 movement.

1939 Bulova Arline

William Smith's picture
William Smith
Posted June 23, 2015 - 12:02pm

Club 5000Panel Member

This record is an example of why clear pictures of the inside case back and other areas are important to the ID'ing process.  A little more work to take all the pictures of watch, but often needed to resolve or address issues like this.  We can't see if it's possibly a mis-struck 6 vs a zero without a picture.

Alex
Posted June 23, 2015 - 9:30pm

Panel Member

OK, by lack of a clear picture from the inside, let's keep it at Arline. I will soon send you guys the results of my research on the evolution of case engravings and dials of ladies watches from 1924 to 1930.

bobbee's picture
bobbee
Posted June 24, 2015 - 3:59am

That would be great Alex.

Could you please inform us of how you can date the movements with their serial numbers too?

 

I Agree with the date of the case as 1930. All information known about Bulova so far points at this, but any new information that could possibly help with dating would be most welcome.

Movement could date from 1925, but I'm not seeing any date mark. Any speculation on the case serial no. is moot.

Like Will, I'm also seeing cases stamped "Bulova Quality" post 1925, up to 1929 is as far as I looked and found such.

I can't quite agree with the "1925 only" theory for the gold-filled numerals either, as there are several both here and at Watchophilia that date as late as 1927, and gold raised numerals even later.

http://www.watchophilia.com/photogallery/bulovas-1920-1929/a1928-daphne/...

http://www.watchophilia.com/photogallery/bulovas-1920-1929/a1927-unknown2/

http://www.watchophilia.com/photogallery/bulovas-1920-1929/a1926-unknown/

http://www.mybulova.com/watches/1926-cavalier-5640

http://www.mybulova.com/watches/1929-patricia-1195

http://www.mybulova.com/watches/1926-unknown-505

i am also seeing the 6P movement on Watchophilia as having run dates 1924-1927.

Alex
Posted June 24, 2015 - 6:28am

Panel Member

Hi Bobbee, from my studies I see that 6P was succeeded by 6AP (like 6F became 6AF and 5P became 5AP). This happened in 1926. For what I see, the serial numbers continued, so were not reset when 6AP started. For example, last 6P I have seen from 1925 has number 123226, then I saw 1 6P from 1926 with 128159 and then the earliest 6AP from 1926 is with number 1333678. So numbering just continues. But in 1927 the seem to have reset the numbering, because I found a 6AP from 1927 with number 33 thousand and then it continues in 1928 with numbers between 50 thousand and 75 thousand, 1929 with 80 to 83 thousand. So. Just making an inventory of all the movementswill give you this overview. Painstaking work, but well, I love it!

Alex
Posted June 24, 2015 - 6:32am

Panel Member

On the golden dials, the embossed from later are different from the "1925" ones with the gold laying deep in the silver surface. I call them "1925" since the majority are from that year. I have seen one from 1924 and one from 1926. The one of 1927 on Watchiphilia I am aware and is either a " redial" either the exception that confirms the rule. Main fact is, including the 1927 exception I have seen around 12 so far, of which 3 are not from 1925 as mentioned above. 

Alex
Posted June 24, 2015 - 6:35am

Panel Member

The triangular side engraving however really goes only until 1925, except for the rectangular cases where this pattern continues until 1929. This weekend I hope to finalise my PDF with all the case engravings for the basic lady shapes and send you. 

bobbee's picture
bobbee
Posted June 24, 2015 - 6:57am

Those "exceptions" prove that they do not in fact come only from 1925 as you stated, and there are four with sunken gold filled numerals if we include the Cavalier pocket watch from 1926. Three from 1926 and one from 1927. With your 1924 example that is a four year spread that we know of for these gold numeral dials.

The one on Watchophilia is original, not a redial.

Here it is.

 

 

Many movements that seem to continue on from previous ones do not in fact succeed but precede.

Bulova serial numbers are so random as to defy logic in many cases. To extrapolate any meaningful dating system from so few numbers of many of the movements available would take some doing, and I would love to see how it is done.

This may lead to completely redefining the database if it proves correct.

 

William Smith's picture
William Smith
Posted June 24, 2015 - 12:38pm

Club 5000Panel Member

The movement and case serial numbers may not be totally exhaustive, but they are mutually exclusive, or we would see at least one single duplicate case and/or movement SN, which we don't.  They may appear "random" or w/o logic, its just we haven't figured them out yet.  
We sure are moving forward in leaps and bounds though!