Bulova 1945 Military Issue

10/10 votes
Model ID rating explained.
1.812
Manufacture Year: 
1945
Movement Symbol: 
Circle
Movement Model: 
10 AK
Movement Jewels: 
15
Case Serial No.: 
OF-104157
Case shape: 
Round
Additional Information: 

WWII Bulova ORD CORPS.

Stainless Steel Case measures 39mm lug to lug x 32mm wide non inclusive of the Crown while using Calipers.

White Dial shows Military standard Arabic numerals and Black printed tracks. Hour and Minute Hands are Military radium and a radium 10AK Military Seconds Hand appears on a sub Dial fully obscuring the 6.

Anti-magnetic dust shield and Gasket between Caseback and Movement.

10 sided Stainless Steel Caseback screws on and is stamped as shown.

 * although the Movement is Dated to 1944 this style of Military Case did not appear until 1945-'46.

as found - glass in poor condition.

 

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bobbee's picture
bobbee
Posted May 4, 2013 - 6:01am

Oh dear.

You still insist on using other brands when we are talking Bulova.
This case does not conform to military specs of the time, therefore it is non-conforming
I refer to the TM9-1575 April 1945 Ordinance manual, figures 165-166 show the case specifications for the Bulova, and yours aint it.

mybulova_admin
Posted May 4, 2013 - 6:32am

Club 5000Panel Member

Thrashing these details out, no matter how heated will in the end bring us closure to the truth....if one exists.

Keep the debate alive but please remember to keep it within the boundaries of the site rules.

Thanks gents!

stoddrob
Posted May 4, 2013 - 3:35pm

Entering the Fray: I have experience in working on every military model watch. I have bought, sold, and still have tons of Bulova, Elgin, Hamilton, and Waltham military watches. I have loads of cases, case back covers, dials (NOS), movements, parts etc. I can quite frankly state no man is an expert. Naturally there are military spec publications, and I try to adhere ridgedly to them....but there are so many different variants of cases that it is impossible to go into all of it. I can't even sort it all out most of the time. The cases and retaining rings varied greatly, as did the dust cap covers - which some included and some did not. However, Fifth is right about the only hacking models were sweep second models. There were no sub-second hacking watches issued by the military. The case in question (as to wheter its authentic to the 10AK movement) was certainly issued with a 10AK movement. There are also similar Waltham and Elgin models. There are USMC variants cases stamped "1917-H" that normally had white dials issued by the USMC and had 10AK movements. The A-11 Bulova models came with two and three-piece cases. The A-17 also had two and three-piece cases. So my suggestion is....lighten-up everyone. There is far too much negative discourse over the trivial in member's posts sometimes. If the watch movement fits, and the dial fits, and the hands are correct - who wants to stand-up and declare themself the expert to dispute whether it's authentic or not? NOT ME....and I have more experience then most commenting here. Love the watch...and move on to the next project.

bobbee's picture
bobbee
Posted May 4, 2013 - 4:27pm

Great input Rob, nice to hear from someone else.
Still non conforming to milspecs of the claimed era, if we stick rigidly to them.

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted May 5, 2013 - 7:02am

Yes, thank You for the input Rob although My interest in the Military pieces is not about what can be pieced together but rather of what was actually issued and when.

The necessity to bring other Watch manufacturers into the discussion lays heavily on the fact that all major manufacturers produced timepieces for U.S. Military issue and those timepieces would have to have met a standard of requirments - a spec.

The Hamilton entered the discussion to utilize the Watch owners notes on the Case design, the Watch Owner being an avid preservationist / restorer of vintage Hamilton.

bobbee's picture
bobbee
Posted May 5, 2013 - 8:19am

The Hamilton watch is very nice, but this is a Bulova site, and the subject does not meet the Bulova case specs referred to, although it also is a very nice watch.

stoddrob
Posted May 5, 2013 - 8:13pm

Let me try to understand all the previous posts: Are people saying that this particular case with an "ORD CORPS" "OF-XXXXX" caseback cover NEVER, EVER had a Bulova 15J 10AK movement in it? Sorry to disappoint...but I have owned and sold many of these with 10AK and 10BM sub-second movements. It is also nearly an identical case to the "1917-H" USMC case and variant that also came with a 15J 10AK sub-second movement. End of story. An Elgin 8/0 554 movement, or Hamilitton, 987a, or Waltham 6/0-B would not likely even fit in this particular case. The dial is right - and it will only fit a Bulova 10AK 15J movement. Anyone suggestion this case never had a Bulova 10AK 15J movement has never had much experience with military issue watches. I don't need to make enemies, but take it from someone who knows, this watch is correct and authenic. Maybe this is why I don't even bother to post my military-issue Bulovas on this site....there is a complete lack of understanding of military-watches. I saw someone post a comment about a Bulova 21AE military clock...and it was like the first time they'd seen one. No offense...but you can't know what you don't know. That's my two-bits!

I'm not even going to try to defend my opinion with specs because the fact is I have bought, owned, restored, and sold dozens of these exact watches. I sold them for not less then $400 each, in the same watch case as above, and with Bulova 10AK 15J or 10BM movement, and I never had one person ever come back and say it wasn't an authentic military-issue watch.

Maybe someone should start a sub-Club website called "Bulova Military Watches" and then they can dismiss people's watches there. In the meantime, my suggestion to members is not to post military watches here...there are far better sites and places to share military watches and get knowledgeable feedback.

stoddrob
Posted May 5, 2013 - 8:26pm

P.S. This watch case is not a A-17 case with a different case back cover. The A-17 case is supposed to have a sweep second movement and different dial. The Bulova's had the 10BNCH movement in the A-17. I currectly have three of them. That's not an opinion - that's a fact. The A-17 models I have are all larger cases, take larger-size diameter dials, have larger crowns, have larger diameter scewback covers, and support completely different movements. The case parts and dials are not interchangeable to fit WWII model watches. Period.

mybulova_admin
Posted May 5, 2013 - 10:24pm

Club 5000Panel Member

Your comments are most welcome in this discussion as its nice to hear from someone who has a very good working knowledge of Bulova Mil spec watches!

Thank you!

bobbee's picture
bobbee
Posted May 6, 2013 - 2:44am

Milspecs are used to identify military watches on this site as we are not military specialists. You sound very knowledgeable, but I see no proof, no pics of these genuine watches that you have or have sold, in fact nothing but words. If, as you state as fact, the A-17 by Bulova of which you claim to currently have three of is so common, why has no-one anywhere seen or heard of them before? Only Waltham released the A-17. You also state as fact that the cases are larger than the subjects case, to fit the 10BNCH movement, yet if you care to look in this site DB you will find A-17A and 3818A case measurements that match exactly, or are within 1mm. of the subject's measurements. Can I say that the subject case has a "spacer ring" to allow it to fit the 10AK? The cases were all the same for all brands, but I thought the case backs would be marked differently, I am sure I have seen the same type of marked case back on a Hamilton in this thread? All cases and casebacks are interchangeable within this and the earlier type A-11 cases, as testified to in other threads and on other sites by more knowledgeable people than me.