Bulova 1959 21st Century

10/10 votes
Model ID rating explained.
1.911
Manufacture Year: 
1959
Movement Model: 
10BP
Movement Jewels: 
21
Case Serial No.: 
D650595
Case shape: 
Rectangle
Crystal Details: 
CMY289-40 20.5 x 19.5
Additional Information: 

Well, let's give this a try and see how well we do. Using the only data available, there are no ads in the DB showing this model so I have to resort to the crystal package which says " Bulova 1200D, 21st Century". So what do we call it?

 

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William Smith's picture
William Smith
Posted July 7, 2012 - 6:15pm

Club 5000Panel Member

I'm on the fence...but certainly leaning towards the possibility of non-conforming.  At least this will allow us to address the possibility.  I think the new rating system, if I follow Geoff's example (which I like), allows us to "change our mind" while we go throught the process.  An early post of unknown can easily be changed to something esle after other points are discussed.  It's all good, just new and a little different.

mybulova_admin
Posted July 7, 2012 - 8:24pm

Club 5000Panel Member

I see no reason why we couldn't give this a tentative ID (based on the information we have) for the 21st Century. We know its an official Bulova model (I have 2 NOS packages and crystals as shown above).

Giving it a tentative ID will at least give us something tangible to look for in the adverts as we get new ones.

Similar to Wills 29 Lone Eagle with the later movement. We all know its a 1929 Lone Eagle, regardless of the movement. I think that in situations were a watch case only ever went by one name it shouldn't matter a great deal about the movement, or hands for that matter.  Watches that were given multiple names due to a change in date, movement, dial, strap etc, should be treated differently as those aspects do matter to the watch ID.

Back to the subject watch.....whilst I like the idea of making this all about evidence, research and fact, I also like the idea that members of this site (espescially panel members) have a brain of their own and sometimes their thoughts, opinions and theories are on the money. If we have a consensus to tentatively ID this as 21st Century then I'm happy with that, otherwsie if the majority want to assign it to the "Non-Conforming' or 'Unknown' group then that's what we do.

My vote (until such time we have evidence showing otherwise) is a tentative 21st Century.

bourg01
Posted July 7, 2012 - 9:10pm

Panel Member

Gentlemen, This is how  MB should work. I presenented a watch with no solid ID, a custom dial  and a theory. We've seen great comments, with reason to a vote and come out of it without any flack. I did this on purpose, to challenge all of of us. Just to see if we could move forward with some focus and without conflict.

Since this is my watch and I cannot vote, I've always leaned towards an "Unconfirmed 21st Century".

I do agree with Mark that since I had the dial custum refinished it is now "non conforming" and we will not find this dial in any ad ever, though we do need to overlook things sometimes and base our judgements on case, dial figures, hands etc.

As we have seen, bands may come into play also,  but I will again point out, manufacture year of case and movement seem to be the most crucial factors.

We can call this watch anything that's exeptable for Stephen to ad it to the database, or he can decide. Makes no difference to me but I will say, This is how a constructive forum should run and I thank you all for your comments and I look to hear from the rest of the panel with regards to this test.

 

plainsmen
Posted July 8, 2012 - 8:21am

Club 5000Panel Member

21st Century - custom dial. Its not as though we have a recase here.

DarHin's picture
DarHin
Posted July 8, 2012 - 4:17pm

FWIW

The only Bulova model I've found for the equivalent BB and SUC crystals is the 21st Century.

BB MY2070 found in the BB #38 catalog

SUC RMW90-13 found in the 1962 supplement

Both the BB and SUC have the dimensions as 20.7x19.8.

mybulova_admin
Posted July 8, 2012 - 7:43pm

Club 5000Panel Member

To keep the ball rolling on this, are there any more comments. Do we have a consensus yet?

William Smith's picture
William Smith
Posted July 8, 2012 - 8:50pm

Club 5000Panel Member

so to summarize, and please let me know if I'm paraphrasing anyone incorrectly. 

  • eight members have commented on this watch
        1 of those is watch owner- Shawn
        6 are "voting" panel members for this watch
        1 is Darhin, member but not voting panel member - yet :)

of those voting:

Geoff - Unknown       notes crystal details as useful but doesn't state worthy of tentative

Me - Tentative 21st Century - crystal specs both from Shawn and DarHin's comments.                            note somewhere dial redo but not recase. not minimize importance of non-                           conforming category for this and other watches. QUESTION: Does the case for 
                           this year have the possibility of being another model (or variant) based on dials?

OT - Unknown  - but I "think" he's saying if there is a tentative vote he may go for that??

Mark - Non-Conforming.  States good reasons why.

Admin- Tentative 21st Century

Plains - 21st Century   - I'm guessing he's saying confirmed, but don't know. Notes redial but not
                                    recase.

So while we are trying to get away from a "three tick" system at this level, unless each voter is very clear, it's up to who ever does this summary to second guess unknown, tentative, known.  If we used a three tick mechanism - like the one admin has in place- someone like myself wouldn't have to "guess" what folks are saying.  It's kind of subjective and clunky the way I've summarized.   What about a three tick system, so admin doesn't have to translate.  We use his existing three tick code to save time, and we just know in this record the ticks stand for 1. Unknown 2. Tentative  3. Known   This way we don't have to guess and translate what each member is saying for them?  The "results" would be cut and dry. 

Or does this just have us back to where we were a week ago??? 

Maybe a four choice tally mechanism each voting member completes.  the three i mention above, and the fourth being non-conforming.  These four catagories are mutually exclusive and totally exhaustive of every watch in the database.  What else could there be?

 

 

OldTicker
Posted July 8, 2012 - 10:38pm

We really don't need a 3 tick system, all we need is 4 categories, Positive ID, Tentative, Unknown and Non-conforming. If the consensus is tentative 21st Century and for the record it is noted that the dial has been redone and changed from the factory specs, that is all that is really needed. Plus, if  and when a ad appears, it will be real easy to go in and change these to positive ID's.

 

plainsmen
Posted July 8, 2012 - 11:19pm

Club 5000Panel Member

Plainsmen's offical vote is 21st century.  I don't care if it's redialed or not.  it's a 21st century with the guys own flair.  So what if it's redialed.  The only case that fits brothers.

William Smith's picture
William Smith
Posted July 8, 2012 - 11:57pm

Club 5000Panel Member

now were getting somewhere I agree with oldticker and everyone else on mechanics. as long as it's clear which of the 4 choices we choose.
I think it's working good job guys were doing it.