I'd like to start this topic by inviting all who read this to post any information they may have about the release of the original 5000 Bulova Lone Eagle watch series in May 1927.
You can read my article "The Bulova Lone Eagle Story" for an insight into my theory about this amazing watch series.
Some points to consider:
- Did Bulova really sell 5000 watches within the 3 days after the Lindbergh landing?
- Where were they sold, America or France?
- What advertising did Bulova use back in 1927 to accomplish such an amazing feat?
- Why did the corner design change?
- Is the design of corner cut model that we see today really an art-deco symbol for an eagle?
I look forward to hearing your comments and thoughts.
In reply to Here is another newspaper by mybulova_admin
"following the flight, the company sold 5,000 "Lone Eagle" watches in three days"
I missed that part before. I've seen this exact story/graphic, with slightly different page layout, in a couple different papers now.
And other papers seem to say the same thing. This one is from The Ellensburg Daily Record, July 18th, 1987. Click graphic for the full newspaper story. 
Year after year, paper after paper, the same words....again in Kentucky News Era January 22nd, 1988.
In reply to Clock at 3 O'Clock on the by FifthAvenueRes…
In reply to Clock at 3 O'Clock on the by FifthAvenueRes…
If We revert back to John H. Ballards recollection of the events that transpired post Lindburghs' flight I think We find an important clue.
Mr Ballard recollects that "the Company (Bulova) also rushed 5000 of its $37.50 model Watches to jewelers with "Lone Eagle" Cases.
I don't see an ad showing the cut corner "CONQUEROR" or "LONE EAGLE" offered for sale at $37.50 but I do see this:
$37.50?
and The Watch in the ad above appears to match the Watch presented to Lindburgh.
In reply to If We revert back to John H. by FifthAvenueRes…
In reply to And the "shape" of the lone by William Smith
Yeah, I just noticed that too and wonder if there is some confusion over the later Tonneau model that sold for $37.50. It also has a LE box but not the "Lone Eagle" is not stampled the top cover....but inside.
We can almost certainly say that the President model above was not the one boxed and marketed, only presented to CAL.
Its a thin theory but I'm wondering if Bulova chose the 'President model' as the presentation piece to coincide with the 'Presidents medal' that was also awarded to CAL upon his return to the US.
Putting some of these clues together its now starting to appear that Lindbergh had two Bulova watches given to him; one pre-flight (which he apparantly wore) and one post flight upon his return to the US.
Its assumed CAL received the President model watch on June 12 1927, yet jewelers started marketing the LE only 5 days later (as early as 17 June 1927) saying that the watch contained a letter with CALs endorsement of his Bulova watch.
An important question now re-surfaces....was the watch mentioned in the letter the one he was presented on the 12th of June or was it a watch previously given to CAL (and possibly worn during the historic flight)?
An important clue may be the address that CAL sent his letter to.
352 Fifth Avenue........at what period did Bulova reside at this address? Did they change address during this time period? May be something...maybe nothing....but I feel that the letter is a clue to the time period.
admin,
Mr Ballards recollection is that "the Company (Bulova) also rushed 5000 of its $37.50 model Watches to jewelers with "Lone Eagle" Cases.
The 29714 'PRESIDENT' model in Silver or Green Gold filled is priced at $37.50 and also matches the presentation Watch (the solid 14k version?), I wouldn't write the possibility that the first 5000 were Presidents off.
I don't think that the Lindbergh presentation watch is a President model.
We see no ads for an unengraved President in the DB, and I have not seen one in looking at thousands in the Wiki links.
The movement holder inside the case is different than any other watch in the watch DB, apart from one other, and this belongs to Mark, also a plain cased model and this holds a 9 A movement.
All other photos of the case holder on the President models in the watch DB do not match the CAL presentation watch. Below is the CAL movement holder, and below that is the 1926 Pesident with 9 A and unengraved case. Not e the matching hinge extension blocks.
Below are a 1928 President with a 9 AN movement (notice the different holder, though same mvmnt as CAL watch), and a 1926 President with a 9 A movement,
I am of the persuasion that the CAL presentation watch is the 39744 model, not because of the price, as the ad quoted is from 1924, and the only ads I can find for a mans watch at $37.50 are for the Norman and one 1926 ad for the Senator, but because of the shape of the case, which matches, and not one ad for the president does.
In reply to I remembered this Feb. 1928 by bobbee
In reply to I would agrre that the by mybulova_admin
What is being considered a clock in the cockpit may be an altimeter with the notch at 6 o'clock being the stem to change the numbers in the colesman window to reflect the actual altitude at take off time or when in a known altitude area.IMO
Kudos to all who have been able to contribute to this great article and I hope Stephen is able to find the "rest of the story" some day soon.
In reply to What is being considered a by JP
I've wanted to put a timeline together for a while now, but there were just too many unknowns. We are now starting to fill in some gaps and as such the following timeline is starting to take shape.
Bulova Lone Eagle Timeline
11 June 1927
Lindbergh rerturned to the US
11 June 1927
Lindbergh presented with a Bulova watch
13 June 1927
"Lone Eagle" first used by Bulova
17 June 1927
"Lone Eagle" trademark for watched filed by Bulova
http://trade.mar.cx/US71250675
17 June 1927
First advert by Castle NY to sell the LE with box and letter
(sometime prior to this date CAL sent Bulova letter of appreciation)
19 June 1927
Drake advert with box and letter
2 July 1927
Last Saturday Evening Post advert to show the Conqueror
27 August 1927
First Saturday Evening Post advert to feature the LE
JP, I don't even know if the instrument panel in the pic is original, as the wicker/cane support looks like an old bookshelf to me!
The pilot in this 1925 ad used to use a half-empty (or half-full, depending on your viewpoint!) bottle of whiskey for a trim/attitude gauge!
So, did Lindbergh have a clock in his cockpit, or any gauges at all at the time of his epic flight?
EDIT:- I could have sworn I posted this ad the first time! Here it is anyway.
Here is an old post I just found on the IWC185 website (http://ihc185.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9886009961/m/4181056311) that states.
Excerpt From The Bulova Watch Company's "Record of Firsts."
On Friday,May 20,1927 Charles A. Lindbergh takes off from Roosevelt Field, NY, on history"s first trans-Atlantic solo flight-in The Spirit of St. Louis with a Bulova watch on his wrist. (It was the only timepiece aboard; Lindbergh had refused to install a clock, which weighed more than a watch,on the instrument panel or a radio.) As soon as word was flashed from Paris, France, that Lindbergh had landed there at 5.22 p.m. .Saturday May 21, New York time, Bulova rushed 5,000 Bulova "Lone Eagle" wristwatches to jewelers. More than 50,000 more were retailed later. (Henry B. Fried)
The statement above which claims that there was no clock aboard the Spirit is in fact no true.
On 4 April 1927 Capt Charles Lindbergh San Diego, Calif purchased a 8-Day Watham Clock and other instruments to be installed on the Spirit. The Waltham Airplane Clock Model XA was installed prior to the Atlantic flight on the instrument panel to the right of the Air Speed Indicator (Far right)
PS A letter I received from The Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum states: The records show that the Waltham 8 Day Airplane Clock Model XA was installed on the instrument panel when the aircraft was received by the Smithsonian during April 1928
I have been unable to find out if Charles Lindbergh wore a wristwatch or what make during his historic flight.
Frank Menez
In reply to Here is an old post I just by mybulova_admin
Stephen- the IWC thread is a good read, and really doesn't give us much "evidence" :) Thanks for your last post in that thread. Hopefully it will revive the topic after seven years. Maybe Frank and others will check back in on that thread now.
Perhaps we can place some version of your IWC 185 post in the NAWCC wristwatch forum, under a similar thread. Cary Hurt may be another resource, along with others at NAWCC. I can place there for you, perhaps to revive interest in that thread. Or you can post it there??? I'll look for a link to that discussion.
Interesting read in the IHC thread, but where is the absolute proof that Lindbergh left the clock in during the flight?
If he says he took it out, maybe he actually did take it out, either for weight reasons or for another reason, because Bulova were sponsoring him.
Just because the Smithsonian received the plane with the clock fitted, does not mean that it was in it at the time of the flight.
Just another view on possible explanations, not a fact.
Bob, it's says the clock was installed in April of 1928 when the Museum took delivery of the plane, which indicates that the one pictures may not have been originally on the flight.
The original if it had one may have been stolen or removed for repair, who knows, but it certainly does open up the question that what watch did CAL use if the plane had no clock during the flight.
I think it would have been just a little bit nuts to fly without a dashboard clock. After all, what does it weigh, a pound? A wristwatch can be damaged and stopped very easily, even by just banging it against a door or bulkhead, especially in those days. There are a lot of calculations that require an accurate timepiece in navigation, not the least of which are fuel consumption and position.
I'm of the mind that Lindy was given one model watch as a presentation piece, perhaps hurriedly prepared for him, and another after the fact. His endorsement of a Bulova watch is kind of generic, he doesn't mention a model, but refers to one he has received. One of two?
In reply to I think it would have been by Reverend Rob
If you read some of the eye witness extracts the SoSL only just made it over a number of obstacles on take off. The plane was fully loaded with fuel to make the voyage and keeping the weight down to a absolute minimum was essential to the success of the flight.
We may never know, but logic would dictate that a watch was worn either as a primary time keeping source or at the very least as a backup.
I still find it interesting that when delivered to the museum in 1928 the only instrument missing was the clock, which just so happens to be the only piece of equipment replaceable by something you can wear.
Thought....
Hey we need a clock for the flight.... No probs got that covered....ok install it there on the right side of the panel.....check....
Days later.... Crap the planes too heavy for take off, what weight can we lose?
Hey it's nothing more than a thought.
"The above events may not have actually happened and are the random thoughts of one Stephen Ollman"
In reply to If you read some of the eye by mybulova_admin
"Lindbergh convinced the St. Louis Chamber of Commerce to sponsor the flight, and a budget of $15,000 was set. The Ryan Airlines Corporation of San Diego volunteered to build a single-engine aircraft to his specifications. Extra fuel tanks were added, and the wing span was increased to 46 feet to accommodate the additional weight. The main fuel tank was placed in front of the cockpit because it would be safest there in the event of a crash. This meant Lindbergh would have no forward vision, so a periscope was added. To reduce weight, everything that was not utterly essential was left out. There would be no radio, gas gauge, night-flying lights, navigation equipment, or parachute. Lindbergh would sit in a light seat made of wicker. Unlike other aviators attempting the flight, Lindbergh would be alone, with no navigator or co-pilot."
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/lindbergh-lands-in-paris
Now I get you! I thought it meant the clock was already installed, and that was why Mr. Menez in his article states that there WAS a clock on board during the flight.
But is that what was meant? That phrase "The clock was installed when the Smithsonian received the aircraft"(sic) is pretty ambiguous to say the least.
Where does he get the info that the clock was installed PRIOR to the flight?
This is not revealed to us in his article.
The only verified information in the article comes from someone who was there at the time, and says there was NOT a clock, though this person was admittedly a Bulova employee.
So we found another newspaper article which mentions Lindbergh "wore a Bulova" on the flight. The article ran in "The Fredonia Censor" (New York) page 3 on Wednesday, September 14th, 1927. There was also a large Bulova Watch Advertisement on bottom of the same page, but no mention of a Lone Eagle model (nor were any of the Lone Eagle models pictured in the ad).
If anyone want's the full newspaper PDF please PM me.
In reply to So we found another newspaper by William Smith
I believe it reads....
A.Aronson jeweler, 328 Main street, Dunkirk N.Y has been appointed distributor of Bulova wrist watches in that town. Colonel Lindberg wore a Bulova on his famous flight and the new Miss America, chosen last week at Atlantic City, is also the possessor of one of these popular watches. Mr Aronson is local watch inspector for the New York Central Railway.
If the above has any truth to it and CAL did in fact wear a Bulova on this flight, then he was presented with at least two Bulova watches. The one pre-flight which I hope one day we see is the Conqueror/Lone Eagle model and the other upon his return to the US post flight (the President style model)
The search continues.....
Updated timeline.
Bulova Lone Eagle Timeline
11 June 1927
Lindbergh rerturned to the US
11 June 1927
Lindbergh presented with a Bulova watch
13 June 1927
"Lone Eagle" first used by Bulova
17 June 1927
"Lone Eagle" trademark for watched filed by Bulova
http://trade.mar.cx/US71250675
17 June 1927
First advert by Castle NY to sell the LE with box and letter
(sometime prior to this date CAL sent Bulova letter of appreciation)
19 June 1927
Drake advert with box and letter
2 July 1927
Last Saturday Evening Post advert to show the Conqueror
3 July 1927
Milwaukee Sentinel advert with letter and box
27 August 1927
First Saturday Evening Post advert to feature the LE
I don't suppose these are any help?
Check the date, June 27, 1927.
This July 15th. 1927 ad says: "an exact replica of the watch worn by Col. Charles Lindbergh".
Notice it has the "old style" enamelled corners.
This October 1927 ad has the open case, but the watch is hard to see.
Bobbee, hope you don't mind me updating the images you posted. I cleaned them up a bit.
The 3rd advert is amazing and the first advert of the period to actualy show the correct case. This proves that the first releases did in fact come in the long brown rectangular version and not the green box.
Notice how these 1927 adverts all indicate that CAL was either presented or wore this model, which would highly suggest that he was given this model watch along 'with' the President style (upon his return)..thus 2 Bulova watches.
With all this evidence its certainly starting to look like it may just have been possible that he did in fact wear/have the Conqueror/Lone Eagle model around the time of his flight if not during his flight, we certainly have written statements to the fact.
Updated timeline.
Bulova Lone Eagle Timeline
11 June 1927
Lindbergh rerturned to the US
11 June 1927
Lindbergh presented with a Bulova watch
13 June 1927
"Lone Eagle" first used by Bulova
17 June 1927
"Lone Eagle" trademark for watched filed by Bulova
http://trade.mar.cx/US71250675
17 June 1927
First advert by Castle NY to sell the LE with box and letter
(sometime prior to this date CAL sent Bulova letter of appreciation)
19 June 1927
Drake advert with box and letter
27 June 1927
Huff's Jewelry store advert "watch presented to..."
2 July 1927
Last Saturday Evening Post advert to show the Conqueror
3 July 1927
Milwaukee Sentinel advert with letter and box
15 July 1927
H.A Tibbals advert "replica of the watch worn by...."
27 August 1927
First Saturday Evening Post advert to feature the LE
October 1927
First advert showing the presentation box (factory set)
Interesting to see CALs fast promotion from Captian to Colonel, pre and post flight.
May 25 1927 (post flight) he was still referred to with the rank of Captain. Was he promoted upon his return to ther US?
June 11 1927, referred to with the rank of Colonel upon return to US from France. Has anyone seen any ealier use of the Colonel rank.
In reply to June 17th. 1927 by bobbee
In reply to Great! Gotta be an East by William Smith
In reply to There is another ad, by bobbee
In reply to Looks like he has something by William Smith
Looks like CAL DID wear a wristwatch on his flight, or at least he wore one to his meeting with the King of England at the end of May, 1927. Nearly half way down the article snippet from the Lowell Sun, May 31st, 1927.
"Finally, glancing at his wristwatch,".
Could this be the Bulova watch he supposedly wore on the flight, or given to him after?
