Hi, I have a 1951 Academy Award - identified using vintage ads - that has a stuck winding stem. The stem is rusty so I want to replace it. The crown has also corroded to the point where it can be screwed on but it's too weak to use it to wind the watch. I have the movement out of the case. It's a 10BM. How do I remove the stem?
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff275/Arubakar/my_watch3.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff275/Arubakar/my_watch6.jpg
I cleaned the dial using warm water, detergent, and vinegar. Did remove some of the small indices.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff275/Arubakar/after_cleaning_dial.j…
I have some parts movements I got for $25.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff275/Arubakar/10bm_parts1.jpg
You need to turn out this screw about 1 1/2 turns, and it should release the stem unless it is rusted solid.
If the stem is stuck, chances are there is more rust under the dial and that would have to be pulled to get at the clutch & yoke. Sound like it needs a complete service if moisture signs are present.
I guess I'm gonna have to get a hand puller. This watch belonged to my grandfather so replacing the movement completely kind of ruins that imo. I want to get it working again but I don't want to pay some guy hundreds of dollars. At least not until - if ever - I have the dial refinished.
If you are careful, you can let the dial pop the hands off, loosen the feet set screws, and very gently work the dial off, but do it over a white towel or something with a light color, because when the hands pop off, they sometimes go flying and have a tendency to bounce or disappear. The seconds hand will be the first to come off, and that is the one that usually disappears.
I wouldn't recommend this as the way to pull hands, but if you don't have a hand puller and don't want to invest in one for a one time use, this will work.
Good luck!
Greg
Well, Greg, I gave that a try over a big piece of white foam I had. The second hand popped off, I saw it laying there. I proceeded to pop off the other hands and the whole gear came off the shaft under the dial. Then I looked back to where the second hand was and it was gone hahaha. I looked for it but with no success so far. It's here somewhere. Anyway here are some more pics.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff275/Arubakar/PC050036_resized.jpg
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff275/Arubakar/PC050034_resized.jpg
In reply to Well, Greg, I gave that a try by 10BM
Hope you can find it! they have a tendency to hide on you...The gear is the hour wheel, and it just slips over the cannon pinion, so no big deal...you didn't break anything...the hour hand is what is holding it to the dial, you can usually catch it with your fingernails and seperate it by holding the dial face down on the foam and gently pulling up on the wheel.
Try putting a drop of WD-40 or some other type of penetratimg oil here and let it set over night...try pulling out the stem in the morning...you might need to grab it with a needle nose and pull straight away. Don't put too much on, it could work its way to the hairspring...and don't pull to hard or you will break the setting lever. If that doesn't work, you will have to remove the yoke & lever and then you can pull harder.
Did this watch run before?, is the balance wheel moving free?
Found it! Thank God for magnets!
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff275/Arubakar/hand_close.jpg
The balance wheel seems to move pretty freely. If I hold the whole movement between my thumb and index finger and spin it the balance wheel rotates as if it were working, then stops obviously because it's not wound or whatever. I don't know when the last time this watch ran was. I got it in a box of old Timex watches. The two mechanical "Timexes" worked and I where one of em' alternating between that and my amphibia atm. The crystal was missing so that's how it lost the hour hand. I recently ordered a replacement crystal. I'll have someone else install that.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, it is well worth it to get the watch properly serviced, especially if it has sentimental value. Getting it running without properly cleaning and lubricating every part in the movt can and will make the watch destroy itself. A watch that has not been serviced shouldn't be run, as irreparable damage will occur.
A proper service, that is, complete disassembly and cleaning in modern cleaning solutions without ultrasonic, reassembly and proper lubrication with modern lubricants, and regulation and adjustment shouldn't cost much more than $80, if no parts are needed.
The more a watch is run without service, the more likely it will be damaged and need replacement parts. It doesn't take long to outstrip the value of the watch with replacement parts. Even jewels can be worn out of round by dirt and corroded pivots and arbors. I say this as someone who sees the damage all day every day, and in many cases, the watch requires extensive restoration, when a little preventative care would have gone a long way.
In reply to I completely understand that. by 10BM
Then it sounds like the staff is ok...if you have a good sharp larger screwdriver, you can wind it by turning the big gear retaining screw clockwise a few turns, shake it or give the balance a little help, and see if it takes off. That should tell you that mainspring is ok and the movement will only require a good cleaning & lube to restore it, it will also help you decide on getting the dial restored, and will help you take the next big step...finding someone to do it properly.
What kind of shape is the case in? these usually show wear to the lug tips and along the edges of the case back.
Right, that means the stem is still in one piece, so getting the stem should make the difference.
These movements are pieces of art, and the help I have given you is just advice that has worked for me to diagnose and access if the watch is worth having a master watchmaker like Rev. Rob do his magic on. I am self taught to a certain point, and after that its up to the pros, and there are many of them that are members here, so help is available. The crystal replacement and case polishing are the easy parts...the movement...that is another story.
I hope you have success in the morning!
In reply to Right, that means the stem is by OldTicker
Wow. So who is this Rob guy?
Actually, I have quite a few years to go before I can be called anything like "Master"...I appreciate the vote of confidence, and I realize many watch enthusiasts really want to work on their own watches. If my advice helps, that is what I'm all about. Sharing the passion for watches and watchmaking is a two way street, and I'm always glad to be here.
If you want to see what's going on with the stem, you might have to do some exploration. Under the Sautoir, that is, the setting lever spring/plate, is the yoke and its spring, and the stem as it passes through the sliding pinion and the winding pinion. Two screws usually hold this odd shaped plate down. The yoke spring exerts force on the yoke, and returns the sliding pinion to the winding position when the stem is pushed in after setting has been done. The yoke spring is easily launched into orbit, so you want to hold part of it down that is the loop end with a chisel shaped bit of pegwood, and gently lift a leg of the spring to free it from its recess in the plate. If there is a lot of rust in there, something is probably very damaged by corrosion, and may snap. Penetrating oil can help free up the parts as OT said. OT's pics show this very well.
Alternately, as you mentioned, you can remove the barrel bridge by removing the ratchet wheel, and then the screws holding down the bridge. (3) You don't have to remove the Crown wheel, but if you do, bear in mind it is a left hand thread. You will see the sliding pinion and the winding pinion as above, and will be able to see if they are all rusted together on the stem.
Watches with water damage need extensive cleaning and care, as the rust can migrate and leave a film everywhere. Parts frozen with rust are usually toast.
Alright, well I couldn't get the stem out this morning by just pulling on it. So I decided to remove the barrel bridge. While I was removing the bridge I noticed the regulator had shifted position. When I tried to move it back to the middle it popped off. Had to bring out the magnet again. I'm hoping this is no big deal since servicing a watch probably involves removing these parts anyway right? Well here's where I'm at so far. Getting the barrel bridge off was easier than I thought. BTW, it's fun working on a watch for the first time. Learning the names of the parts is easier with first hand experience. I'll have to get a less important watch and do a complete disassembly.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff275/Arubakar/10BM_Bridge_Off_1_cro…
Wooo! Yeah! Got it out. It took two days soaking in break free clp. I would have used PB Blaster - my penetrating oil of choice - but break free did the job this time. I just sat the movement in a cap full of the oil propped up with the stem submerged. Well, here it is.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff275/Arubakar/Bulova_10BM_stem_out…
Congratulations!
This is how you get started collecting watches, they are works of art and taking them apart really makes you appreciate those who work on them.
Next thing you know, you will be buying a few tools, old movements, parts lots, training material, and spending hours tinkering on these when you can!
I have done a few Pocket watches, they are much easier to work on because of the size difference, Stems, dials, hands, & setting parts are about as far as I go with wristwatches.
You should be able to source all of the parts you need for this one on the bay, or through this site, and a dial restorer like International Dial can do the dial work. If you need a good watchmaker to do the movement, there are many right here that can help you out.
Can't wait to see it when it is done!
Greg
Thanks for the help guys. Despite Robs warning and my promise not to let it run, I cleaned up the stem and the bridge, put it all back together, and wound it just a little with a screwdriver on the winding wheel. It works! You can see it here. I put the old stem back in to make it easier to replace. Getting that stem back in with the bridge off is tricky.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff275/Arubakar/running3.jpg
I also just popped the regulator back on hoping it would just work. I think it went back on right straddling the hairspring like it's supposed to. It's hard to tell without magnification. Here's a closeup. Does it look ok?
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff275/Arubakar/harispring_detail.jpg
The regulator looks ok, but as you say, magnification is a big help here, because technically, the hairpsring must pass exactly through the centre of the two pins, and they can neither be too close, nor too far apart. The differences are measured in hundredths of a mm.
One thing you do want to be careful of though: Any solutions that dissolve shellac, like alcohols, will melt the shellac holding your pallet stones and sometimes the impulse pin. Soaking the movt in anything like this is not good, and will result in the pallet jewels having to be re-set. Petroleum based sol'ns are mainly ok. What soaking will also do, however, is dissolve some dirt and old oil residue and make it collect in various places. Jewel holes, under bridges, under the ratchet wheel, on the hairspring, between the cap jewels and pivot jewels, etc etc. The dirt and residue then grind away at the surfaces, causing damage. I see a lot of watches that have been soaked and passed off as serviced on the 'Bay, and clocks, too. Full disassembly is always necessary.
One mistake I made, early on, was I thought I would soak a date disc to clean it up. The numbers all slid off like those transparent transfers we used on our model planes when we were kids. This is in fact, what the numbers are on many of these, water applied film transfers. Dial cleaning is another pitfall. There is no way to safely clean a dial, other than very light use of water or Rodico, and there is always risk of damage to the dial when any cleaning is done.
Anyway, kudos for getting your stem out, this is a common problem when water has gotten into the movt.
In reply to The regulator looks ok, but by Reverend Rob
Rev. I've been experimenting with different substances to clean dials. Have you ever tried car wax? I tried Zymol cleaner wax. I dipped a Q-tip in it and rubbed the dial with it, until it hazed over and then wiped it off with a soft cotton cloth. I had to clean around the numbers with a tooth pick. Then I rinsed it with water and dried it real good. It made a big improvement in the appearance of the dial and it didn't seem to harm the dial paint.
In reply to Rev. I've been experimenting by 1955mercury
Various products will work on certain dials, but no one thing works on them all. An old watchmaker's trick is to use light waxes to absorb dirt and discolouration, and then buff carefully to retore the finish. I find this works only some of the time, and I don't recommend it on really valuable or rare watches. The wax will appear to fill in spaces where the varnish or clear coat has eroded away. I have used very small pegwood charged with either 'Polywatch' (crystal polish) or diamantine to refinish indices and numbers that are made of applied metal to the dial. You can buy extremely fine emery papers from Lee Valley, and use tiny pieces which are self adhesive, and glue them to small sticks and they work very well also. The paper, which is actually a polymer, is coated with fine abrasive, and colour coded as to its fineness. I use these a lot.