Inside case: AMERICAN STANDARD, SHIELD EMBLEM, 19k 1/12 ROLLED GOLD PLATE
MERMAID
Dear Texaslady, your watch is a Franken. As you can see with the Mermaid you just posted, Bulova introduced their own “Bulova Quality” case signature as from case serial starting with 141. The cases were still made by American Standard, who continued to supply other brands like Warwick, Modern, AXA, Hirco, Luxor, Emshir etc. using their regular American Standard signature. These are second tier brands for whom American Standard supplied rolled gold plate cases, something that Bulova eventually would introduce themselves in 1927 with the Rona.
Alex, what do you mean by Franken, as in non matching parts?
The case is 1925, the movement is 1925 (assuming it is indeed stamped with a circle date code).
The case was from Bulova and the serial number suggests it was at least stamped in 1925.
I'm good with a 1925 Bulova Mermaid.
Alex, American Standards Watch Case Company was owned by Bulova and produced cases for their early watches. They shortened it to just American Standard. You can see here that is was used by Bulova as early as 1918.
Bear in mind the American Standard Watch Company is different from American Standard Watch Case Company.
My records show that these cases went from the 'globe' to the 'shield' around 1923 which is the same year we see Bulova Watch Company kick in..
They may have supplied to other companies, but they also used them themselves.
I wouldn't say that they stopped in 1925, this case somewhat shows that they didn't.
1925 is the cut over year we have seen with the case serial number going from 15XXXXX to 5XXXXXX.
As far as I'm concerned the case is 100% Bulova as used by their early watches from about 1923 to 1925.
As said in my first comment above, as from case serial starting with 141xxxx, Bulova got their own case signature mentioning Bulova Quality. All cases with serial numbers after that e.g. 509 of the subject watch still having an American Standard case signature were supplied to other brands. Indeed, American Standard was owned by Bulova, Arde to be precise, not the company. He/American Standard sold cases to other brands from a separate sales office based 14 John Street and later from 11 Maiden Lane, while the Bulova Watch Co. office was in a different location.
In reply to As said in my first comment… by Alex
We'll have to agree to disagree on this watch.
Whilst I can't argue with what you are suggesting Bulova did post 1925, we have no evidence of when they stopped using cases stamped with 'American Standard'.
I'm not sure where the 141xxxx is coming from, I assume from your own research that hasn't been published on myBulova..
What we can say we know:
- Bulova owned and manufactured watches cases under the brand 'American Standard Watch Case Company' and 'American Standard'
- Bulova used these cases to house their movements
- Bulova switched to using the first number in a case serial in 1925 (we have a number of examples showing 15xxxxx and 5xxxxx)
I see no reason why the subject watch would be considered a Franken.
I agree Bulova changed from 'American Standard' to 'Bulova Quality' in 1925, but when, what date? I'm sure they still had stock stamped with the 'American Standard'. I don't think we can say categorically when they stopped or cut over.
It would be good to see what non-Bulova watches your are referring to that use the 'American Standard' case stamping post 1925.
Perhaps you can start a new forum topic so we can discuss in more detail, as I think this is important information.
We seemed to have hijacked TexasLady's watch post :-)
@Stephen and Alex
I welcome this info from both of you, however can someone advise me what a Franken is, and info regarding when certain cases were used and stopped being used by Bulova. Is there a chart stating the dates etc...All this info is wonderful to hear about my watches.
The subject movement 6W does indeed have the CIRCLE Date Code.
Please note that the past 4 watches I have posted are from my collection and not recently purchased. I have been reorganizing my watches and adding some from my collection.
In reply to @Stephen and Alex I welcome… by TexasLady
I think what Alex is suggesting (Alex please correct me if I'm wrong), is that the case is not a Bulova case (as of 1925) and therefore the watch as it stands is not a true Bulova watch from 1925, but a 'Franken' (Frankenstein) watch made up of Bulova and non-Bulova parts.
I tend to disagree with this notion and believe the watch case to be correct (legit) and as such the watch is a 1925 Bulova Mermaid, based on a 1925 Bulova case and movement.