Let's chat about the 'SENATOR' shall We, specifically the Years 1940 - 1949.
The only ad showing the Bulova 'SENATOR' I personally am familiar with shows a Tonnau shape step lugged Case with Gilt (Gold) Arabic Numerals on a White Dial and a 17J movement.
Let's hash this out Boys as now is as good a time as any.
SENATOR 'A' : Shows the Watch on a Leather strap with applied Arabic Numerals, Whie Dial, Modern style Hands.
Circa: approx 1945.
No personal pics, ads only please Gentlemen, preferably with some sort of description and an approximate Date.
Presidence will say 1 member gets to show 1 ad each in turn, this way eveyone wanting to participate can.
Should be fun.
ML.
It is my opinion that to understand this discussion & enter any comments the readers should be familiar with the following string http://www.mybulova.com/node/1192 titled Retoration 101.
Wayne
In reply to Here is my one image. by mybulova_admin
Nice collage of Senators-Good Job Admin
Has anyone ever seen a real version of the 1925/26 Senator? It's a beautiful watch in this 1925 ad as 3174, named later in 1925 as Senator.
In 1928 through 1930 Bulova produced two Senator confuguations, one with engraving on all four sides of the bezel and one with engraving only on the vertical sides of the bezel (slick top & bottom bezel) the 2 configurations are shown in 1928 ads.
What is it that we are hashing out in this string?
Wayne
Wow!
You Guys certainly know how to Railroad a thread.
Trying to discuss the 1940 - 1949 Senator.
Has anyone seen this Watch in an ad showing any other configuration than with a White Dial and applied Gilt numerals?
Circa 1947:
* GJ raised an interesting observation about the Crystal dimensions in a prior post.
The same Crystal is shown in the GS catalog as fitting 2 other Models:
1. Spencer.
2. Radio City.
In reply to so far... Arabic Numerals, by mybulova_admin
In reply to Agreed.... exploding salmon by plainsmen
Rule No.1 With Bulova never assume anything! Below is a Senator with an exploding dial & Modern hands, in a Senator Box, with a Guarantee for this Bulova Senator.
The pic below is a 1940s Spensor with a white dial & Modern hands.
The original discussion from Restoration 101 was authentic hands for the Senator under restoration.
The authentic hands for a Senator are the Modern style. The only other model that used the Senator case was the Bulova Blackout.
In reply to Rule No.1 With Bulova never by Wayne Hanley
In reply to Wayne, dial in not exploding by mybulova_admin
Stephen, I errored in calling the copper dial with arabic numbers an exploding dial. But it is a copper dial & the Senator watch with the box and Bulova Guarantee were special & correct for the Senator. Just one copper dial Senator above shoots down the statement that all Senators are white dialed certainly copper and shoots "Senators have all white dials is not a fact"
In reply to Stephen, I errored in calling by Wayne Hanley
In reply to Rule No.1 With Bulova never by Wayne Hanley
In reply to Wayne, is there a copyright by mybulova_admin
admin,
Example of a 1949 Bulova Guarantee Bond with dated original receipt. The Blue Leatherette presentation boxes naming the Watch encased did not appear until the late 1950's and continued through the 1960's.
A Second example of a genuine 1940's Presentation box and Guarantee Bond appears with this 1949 'BRUNSWICK' which is new, old Jeweler stock.
A 3rd example of the 1940's style Presentation Box and Guarantee Bond is found in this ensemble from a 1940's President.
ML
It is fair to assume that all of the Dial variants found in the step lugged Case models are not a 'SENATOR'.
The 1940 - 1949 'SENATOR' has a White or Butler finish Dial with applied Gilt Arabic Numerals and Modern style Hands as shown in all of the ads as there is no variation from that configuration.
Thank You for Your interest Gentlemen.
ML
ML
No. With Bulova it's not safe to assume anything! Remember Rule No. 1
Regarding the Spensor. Bulova was already producing the Senator and the President with exploding dials. The President case was so similar to the Spencer, it didn't make any buisness cence to produce the Spencer. Especially, when the base metal in 1943 for the Spencer was Sterling Silver. Bulova was also producing a new Excellency Group to debut in 1944..
Wayne,
The box included with the Watch You show appears to be a Mid 1950's - 1960's style.
The correct style of presentation box used by Bulova in the 1940's is shown below:
The numerals on the Watch Dial You show are Arabic not Exploding as discussed, the Dial incidently looks remarkable for the overall condition of the Case, a redial?
Still, not an ad showing the 'SENATOR' as being anything other than a step lugged case with a White Dial and Gilt Arabic numerals in the Years 1940 - 1949.
ML.
In reply to Wayne, The box included with by FifthAvenueRes…
ML
There is a problem with your analysis that all Senators have white dials. The 1943 Ad in the Senator ad collage above shows a Senator A with a white dial (normally if Bulova designated an A there was also a B, C etc). I wonder why? Here are two actual Bulova watches from 1943. If the stepped lugged, copper colored, exploding dial watch is named Spencer, what is the name of the watch on the left?
In reply to ML There is a problem with by Wayne Hanley
Wayne,
Both the SENATOR 'A's shown in the ads above appear on Leather straps.
The watch You show on the Left is a 'SPENCER', the ad shows that.
The only expaination at this time for the Watch You show on the Right would be:
1. A transition Model, 1943 being the Year of the Case design change.
2. Movement swap.
3. Redial.
If it's an Original Watch with a known History then consider explaination 1.
If it's a Restoration or Refurb with no known History then consider any of the explainations above.
Prove the middle watch is Radio City.
There are some comments boxes missing from the end of this string.
Plains, what happened to the new Spencer-Senator comments string that were in the forum earlier today?
It would have been a good to continue that discussion or add it to this string.
It's under my 1945 Spencer watch Wayne... here:
www.mybulova.com/watches/1945-spencer-1571
I'm not saying it is the Radio City... I'm saying we know what the Senator looks like..... we know what the Spencer looks like.... we don't know what the Radio City looks like....
Just throwing that out there... I'm not at all set in stone here gents. It could make sense though... obviously all three of those above watches would take the same crystal..... aaaand there's 3 watches in the catalogs that take that crystal... sooooo...
Gents, part of what we are doing here as a collective is trying to work out these mystery combinations and models. It's great that we are taking the time and effort to do this and I encourage it fully, as this is how things get solved and watches ID'd.
At the end of the day what we need is a general consensus from the members on this site of what we believe the model is. Sometimes that consensus will not be 100% and that is fine as everyone here is 'entitled' to their opinion as we all have differing experiences and knowledge sets.
I'm more than happy for members to throw out ideas for a watch model if it's based on some kind of logical thought. It's then up to the rest of us to either help prove that thought or disprove it which factual evidence...in which case we move on and try again.
The Lone Eagle story was started as a bunch of ideas and thoughts and I was always happy for anyone to say I was wrong, as long as they could back it up with evidence or facts. This is still the case , except for that dodgy mis-labelled Lone Eagle 'A' :-)
One thing I will say though is that we need to be careful ID'ing a watch purely based on its crystal dimensions. We have found recently that this can be often inaccurate. It may help lead us in the right direct but I think it shouldn't be the means by which we solely ID a watch.
The 'RADIO CITY' idea has been mentioned: Feb 11 2011: