The Berkshire Locomotive - 1950

Submitted by mybulova_admin on April 17, 2011 - 3:22am

Is it just me or is this the inspiration for the Bulova Berkshire.....check out the front of the locomotive.

It's the Berkshire locomotive - 1950 model

Berkshire locomotive and the Bulova Berkshire.

 

Could it be????

NOVA
Posted April 20, 2011 - 9:26am

In reply to by shooter144

And let's not forget the Air King.  There has been no hint of a relationship between that companion watch and FLW, whereas it fits in perfectly with the WWII theory. 

Here's an article from the New York times regarding Bulova's commitment to WWII vets via the Joseph Bulova School of Watchmaking.  That continued commitment to, and involvement with, WWII vets continued for many years after the war ended--certainly well into the '50s and beyond.  http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/16/nyregion/16simon.html

shooter144
Posted April 20, 2011 - 9:41am

In reply to by NOVA

I am of the mind that maybe we should add some of this info such as Lisa posted from the NY Times to the site...not many companies went thru a war selling their goods at cost ( most profit immensely ) and then open a school specificallly for vets at no cost to them as well. this is unheard of actually, and deserves some space here, I am sure others would agree.

NOVA
Posted April 18, 2011 - 1:22pm

Just to tie up a loose thread from earlier, I made contact with the current owner/manager/renovator of the Bulova building in Queens.  According to Mr. Ed Blumenfeld of Blumenfeld Development Group, the building was designed by Alexander Crosett.

Mr. Blumenfeld stated that the most recent renovations to the building by his company, "held the integrity of his [Mr. Crosett's] design and improved upon the interior design." 

I know that the wild goose chase has since moved on to the Berkshires, but I promised Mr. Blumenfeld to properly credit him for the information he so kindly gathered for us.

mybulova_admin
Posted April 22, 2011 - 4:00am

Ok, hunting on the web turns up that both Gruen and Hamilton also had a watch named the Berkshire.

Gruen - 1956, Hamilton - 1953.

So maybe the name has nothing special to do with Bulova after all.

shooter144
Posted April 22, 2011 - 8:30am

I think the Berkshire connection has been show in another post to reflect connections to Omar Bradley and possibly others from Bulova that spent time at the Berkshire facilities during and after the war.

 

www.mybulova.com/node/2252

Nothing is concrete, however as this thread shows, it is a tangeable connection to a very important airfield that was decommisioned in the early part of the '50's, a fitting reason for a strong military company to name a watch after it ( even before it actually was closed down ) , especially when their military ( Omar Bradley ) connection spent a great deal of time there. Many shot up american bombers landed here and it was home to several US fighter squadrons strongly involved in D-day and other major operations of the war in Germany, untill the bitter end. This is just theory, as is all of the other ideas, but it seems to have the most tangeable connections so far.

Elgin Doug
Posted April 22, 2011 - 4:05pm

I'm going to toss out a crazy idea, for which I concede there is not one lick of evidence:

The Berkshire is not really a 'Dress Watch'.  It's far too informal and even slightly gaudy - compared to some of Bulova's more staid designs.  So perhaps it was meant as a casual watch.  The Berkshires of Western Massachusetts being a vacation destination, perhaps Bulova wanted customers to think of a nice, casual watch to wear on vacation, with their short-sleeved golf shirts and Bermuda shorts.

Alternatively, maybe somebody in the Marketing Department threw a dart at a list....

(Submitted with tongue firmly in cheek)

NOVA
Posted April 22, 2011 - 4:10pm

In reply to by Elgin Doug

Could be.  And maybe the companion watch, the Air King, was named after the dart--the one that went astray and hit the boss in the butt. . . or, better yet, after the guy who threw that dart and then himself went flying out the fifth story window.

NOVA
Posted April 22, 2011 - 4:22pm

Seriously, as far as direct evidence, your theory is as sound as any.  The only "evidence" we have for how the watches were marketed is this service reminder post card.  While, by today's standards, the woman depicted would be dressed for the opera, by 1950 standards, she was pretty casual.

Bob Bruno
Posted April 22, 2011 - 4:29pm

Wow there sure are some interesting theory's coming out of you guys! FLW, a locomotive , air field in England, a vacation spot In Massachusetts. The the funny thing is they are plausible. This might be the most mysterious and interesting watch we have ever discussed on this site. :)

Bob Bruno
Posted April 22, 2011 - 4:43pm

Since the only ad we have ever seen is a Canadian ad could this watch have only been sold to the Canadian market?  Could there be a link to Canada and the name Berkshire?

NOVA
Posted April 22, 2011 - 5:30pm

In reply to by Bob Bruno

I did look into that a bit a couple of weeks ago but didn't find anything interesting.  I'll try again.

Elgin Doug
Posted April 22, 2011 - 5:02pm

You know, there's also a breed of hog named 'Berkshire'.....

NOVA
Posted April 22, 2011 - 5:24pm

In reply to by Elgin Doug

Yes, originating from Berkshire, England.

Anyone see a watch in this picture? 

Bob Bruno
Posted April 22, 2011 - 7:14pm

In reply to by NOVA

Now listen you guys, nobody superimpose the watch on that pigs nose !!!!

shooter144
Posted April 22, 2011 - 7:18pm

In reply to by Bob Bruno

have to be a chrono on that nose...he does look a bit like an architectural designer Ive heard of...cant remember his name tho...

NOVA
Posted April 22, 2011 - 8:49pm

In reply to by shooter144

LOL! 

What else do we need here?  We have a black pig and a white pig, just like the watches.   That's hard evidence.  We have found the source.  Mystery solved.

mybulova_admin
Posted April 23, 2011 - 4:15am

In reply to by Bob Bruno

Damn it, there goes my locomotive theory.....the pig wins!!!!

Sorry I just had to do it.

shooter144
Posted April 22, 2011 - 6:46pm

In reply to by NOVA

I'll bet those bands in the ad are pigskin....thats a definate connection...

NOVA
Posted April 22, 2011 - 5:04pm

You guys are wearing me out.

FifthAvenueRes…
Posted April 22, 2011 - 7:15pm

I'd noticed a Ladies Watch box recently with an interesting slogan inside the lid. It read:

"Timed and Cased at Sterling Tower, Toronto"

A quick check of Sterling Tower revealed it had been demolished years ago, but.

There was the 'Shell Oil Tower'

(Bulova Clock)

Which later became the 'Bulova Tower'

This Tower was located on the grounds of the Canadian National Exibit. Which features the usual festivities including an Air Show.

I'm wondering why the Watch has to look like anything?

Does the Lone Eagle look like Lindenburg?

 

NOVA
Posted April 22, 2011 - 7:18pm

In reply to by FifthAvenueRes…

I've been wondering the same thing.  I mean, is my Senator supposed to look like a particular Senator?  I haven't figured out which one yet.  Guess I'll have to do some more research.

OldTicker
Posted April 22, 2011 - 7:31pm

In reply to by NOVA

LOL!

I have one that looks like the late Sen. Robert Byrd, old, wrinkly, shady,and a bit shakey!!

NOVA
Posted April 22, 2011 - 7:34pm

In reply to by OldTicker

That's great that you were able to make a postive ID on yours.  I'll have to keep working on mine.

Elgin Doug
Posted April 22, 2011 - 8:05pm

In reply to by OldTicker

I have one that's even more like him - it's dead. 

(Sorry, Sen. Byrd)

mybulova_admin
Posted April 23, 2011 - 4:17am

In reply to by FifthAvenueRes…

Yes, there is a art deco eagle head in the corner design.....the lone eagle!!!

FifthAvenueRes…
Posted April 22, 2011 - 7:24pm

I would use caution as there are 2 unresolved issues.

1. We don't know with 100% certainty what this Watch was named in 1950.

2. Where is the Ladies Model?

To Me, these Watches look like a set of some sort, an unnamed / unknown 1950 commemorative perhaps?

happy hunting.

shooter144
Posted April 22, 2011 - 7:29pm

In reply to by FifthAvenueRes…

So all of those named in the data base were not pos ID'd?????  I thought they were Berkshires????

NOVA
Posted April 22, 2011 - 7:52pm

In reply to by shooter144

Shooter  - most of us have accepted the Berkshire and Air King names based on the documentation obtained from Bulova.  Every ID is subject to further review based on new evidence, but, until such time as new evidence arrives, those are the names we've got. 

I guess Admin hasn't yet decided what to do with the lady's models.  Lady Berskshire and Lady Air King have my vote.

FifthAvenueRes…
Posted April 22, 2011 - 7:35pm

shooter,

The Ladies Model has never been named.

The Gent's is named from a 1955 piece.

Lisa,

'AIR KING' could relate to broadcasting....think outside of the box.

NBC.

NOVA
Posted April 22, 2011 - 7:39pm

In reply to by FifthAvenueRes…

Oh, I have been thinking outside the box.  In fact, I proposed to Stephen through a PM that it could relate to the famous radio called the Air King.  Air Kings were a line of radios, which were very popular when radio was very popular--30s through 50s.  They are still very popular as vintage items.  The watch could be modeled after a radio dial.

However, I keep thinking that the two watches should also relate to each other, since they look just alike.  I don't know why Bulova would make identical watches but then give them completely unrelated names.  So, I've been looking for something that links Berkshire with Air King.  Without much luck.

FifthAvenueRes…
Posted April 22, 2011 - 7:50pm

Not quite ready for prime time , but here they are:

In 1950 they most likely did relate, as a set.

IMO

Elgin Doug
Posted April 22, 2011 - 8:08pm

In reply to by FifthAvenueRes…

Dang, 5th!  Those will make a beautiful set when complete.  They're not half bad now!

OldTicker
Posted April 22, 2011 - 7:55pm

It Seems tha Bulova Corp. of Canada was located in the Sterling Tower Toronto much like the USA 5th Ave Nwe York location.

Since the only ad we have is from a jewler in Edmonton AB, this may be an exclusive watch to Canadians.

It could be their answer to the His/Her Excellency series or Academy series for an similar event nationwide event located up north.

I have been doing the Google thing for Canada but seems I am not hitting the right keywords yet...

NOVA
Posted April 22, 2011 - 8:05pm

I still haven't worked directly with International yet, so I could be totally wrong about this.  But won't they have records regarding what these watches were called?  Isn't that how they know which plate(s) to use for the re-dial?  Won't they also be able to tell us whether the watches had different names for different years?

FifthAvenueRes…
Posted April 22, 2011 - 8:05pm

Greg,

I'm there but any link to Bulova and Sterling Tower has long been erased - time to dig deeper I guess.

eh?

shooter144
Posted April 22, 2011 - 9:13pm

That is a very nice set Fifth !!!!

mybulova_admin
Posted April 23, 2011 - 4:21am

I just know that one day soon Plains is gonna pipe up with the correct answer....any moment now...now...now.....

mybulova_admin
Posted April 24, 2011 - 7:13am

After considering a few things, I've decided to add the 'Lady Berkshire' to the list as a model name for the ladies version.

Thanks Nova.

FifthAvenueRes…
Posted April 24, 2011 - 7:50am

Respectfully, I would have to disagree admin.

There is no mention of a 'LADY BERKSHIRE' in any of the Crystal Catalouges, no ads depicting a 'LADY BERKSHIRE'.

There is no evidence whatsover that the model Name ever existed.

we could Name 100 or more unknowns using this 'I think We should call it' method of identification.

For all We know at this point the Ladies model may have only been available in a set.

mybulova_admin
Posted April 24, 2011 - 8:24am

Until such time that we can positively identify this watch lets seperate it out with its own name for labelling purposes.

This can easily be changed when we do have a truely correct name.

This that want to mark it as a Lady Berkshire feel free, those that don't, feel free to eiither mark it as a Berkshire or Unknown.

plainsmen
Posted April 24, 2011 - 8:26am

Well we know it's not the Lady Frank Lloyd Wright watch for sure.... = )

Plains has been rediculously busy with work and fam lately!  This watch is still a kunundrum.

I'd say it stands to reason that more likely than not you ad a Lady in front of the title for the name.  It's been done on the other sets.  Say for instance:

Rite-Angle, Lady Rite-Angle

 

mybulova_admin
Posted April 24, 2011 - 8:56am

In reply to by plainsmen

'Lady' seems the most apt at this present time as Bulova tended to use it alot with their watches as it also relates back to Lady Bulova herself.

FifthAvenueRes…
Posted April 24, 2011 - 8:41am

We don't know what it is Plainsmen, that's for sure.

 

plainsmen
Posted April 24, 2011 - 8:54am

In reply to by FifthAvenueRes…

I'll bet you $1000 GBP that it's not called the Lady Frank Lloyd Wright watch right now.  We'll collect when the name comes out. =)

FifthAvenueRes…
Posted April 24, 2011 - 11:18am

I'll see that $1,000 and raise You another $1,000 that it's not the Lady Rite-Angle.

To clarify: My theory never included a name for the Watch merely a designer for its unique to the time design..

.....and what about that Clock that was found in Philly?