Help Identify a 1967 Bulova

Hello all,

 I picked up this automatic beauty not to long ago. Here is what  I know:

Quote:
Bulova 11ALACD
Features
automatic
sweep second
date: set by changing 22:15-24h
Data
11.5''', Dm= 25.6mm
H= 5.9mm
17/23 jewels
f = 18000 A/h
power reserve 42h
Balance staff U3319
Stem W2802

Courtesy of: www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi

 

What I don't know is what model this is. It is a beautiful watch, and has only been off of my wrist when I sleep. I hope you all are able to help out.

Much better pictures of the movement:

Marty0341
Posted January 12, 2012 - 11:35am

It bears a strong resemblance to a 1965 Date King.

http://www.mybulova.com/watches/1965-date-king-1272

The case is silver whereas the Date King is gold. 

I have also read threads where this has been called a President. I am not sure which is which now.

Anyone have any Ideas?

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted January 12, 2012 - 11:55am

'DATE KING' IMO

NOVA
Posted January 12, 2012 - 2:07pm

How about providing some support for that opinion, since we are here to discuss the facts presented?

Marty0341
Posted January 12, 2012 - 6:46pm

FifthAve . . . I want to say it is a Date King as well. Although the color of the case is off. Does anyone have an example of a silver colored Date King?

 

Nova . . . Do you have any input on the matter? Are there any facts that seem off?

NOVA
Posted January 12, 2012 - 7:02pm

Alright, if you're going to make me play, I will.  But my most valuable input will remain that Fifth should do us all the favor of supporting his opinions.  Where's the ad?  Other watches in the database?  Something besides a mere opinion?

I don't spend much time studying the late models, but a quick glance at the ads shows this 1964 President "O", which seems to share quite a few features with the subject watch.

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted January 12, 2012 - 7:15pm

Lisa,

This ad has been discussed, IMO it's a typo. The details are mixed up with a 2nd Watch in the same ad.

'PRESIDENT' in 1964 was 30 Jewels, supported by ads in the database.

NOVA
Posted January 12, 2012 - 7:22pm

Well there's not much to be said if we're not going to trust the ads.

Marty0341
Posted January 12, 2012 - 8:48pm

I've seen the discussions about those ads, whether it is a typo or actually a president. If the President line was only offered with 30J movements  (and the red ad is a typo), and the Date King with 17, then I would imagine that, unless this is not an original movement, this would be a Date King. Just my take. I can not say for certain that Presidents were only offered with 30J, and the DK only 17J ( as I am still new into the world of older watches). The only thing that makes me want to say President is the fact that in the second ad, model labeled B is silver (or in this case the stay-bright stainless) and this watch is indeed silver/stainless. Please, correct me if I am wrong.

OldTicker
Posted January 12, 2012 - 9:11pm

The fine print makes it sound like all "President's" were not 30J movements, and the price backs that up.

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted January 12, 2012 - 9:10pm

You're correct, and B and E in the ad are not noted as to having 30J movements.

a secondary ad Dated 1964 mentions 39 Calendar styles, with no mention of the 'PRESIDENT'

it had been past practice for Bulova to keep the Jewel count the same across the different models, this one is making Me think.

I highly doubt there was a 17 Jewel 'PRESIDENT' in the 1960's, but I've been wrong before...

Marty0341
Posted January 12, 2012 - 9:19pm

You guys aren't making this any easier!

Ticker - I can see the prices that you were talking about. Perhaps they did have different lines of the President that came with different J counts. Perhaps this is a President (B?)

Fifth - I wonder if this is one of those 39. I guess we will just havet to come to a general consensus about what type this is? But please, keep the information coming!! This has turned out to be quite an intriguing mystery.

The more the convoluted the history is of this watch the more fascinated that I become with it. I am glad to find out that they call the face "snow drift" as this is the most visually appealing faces I have on any of my watches.

mybulova_admin
Posted January 13, 2012 - 12:55am

Club 5000Panel Member

Welcome to the labyrinth that is vintage Bulova.

bourg01
Posted January 13, 2012 - 8:59am

Panel Member

IMO with the ads presented, it is a low cost stainless, 17 Jewel, version of the "President" line up.

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted January 14, 2012 - 4:11pm

Or someone muffed up the ad.

30 Jewel 10 CRACD - SS Case - 'PRESIDENT'

IMO

simpletreasures
Posted January 14, 2012 - 4:39pm

Another discussion continues, politely and with courtesy. Which is why I'm going to be as diplomatic as I can. Marty please enter your movement into the movement data base as yours isn't listed at present. Thank you.

Mark, you should know better! 10CRACD

Marty0341
Posted January 14, 2012 - 9:50pm

Fifth - Thank you for finding that stainless President! The only difference that I can see between your example and the ad, is that the ad does not show the "30 Jewels" on the face of the watch. While it is a possibility that the actual product may be different then advertised, perhaps not all of the Presidents that were stainless were 30J? Who knows, could be anything. I am still waiting to hear back from Bulova themselves.

Simple - I will add the movement to the database.

simpletreasures
Posted January 14, 2012 - 10:53pm

Muchas gracias Marty! Our movement data base is a critical part of our research but is often overlooked! Try to bear in mind we are trying to "restore" history for a company that was too stupid to realize how valuable their company records were (and I'm refering to the owners after Bulova sold out), so old ads and movements, along with old watch repair manuals etc are critical.

 

Marty0341
Posted January 14, 2012 - 11:00pm

No problem Simple. It is unfortunate that the record keeping was not of high priority to Bulova. Perhaps Admin could talk to Roland Ranfft about adding his information for Bulova movements to the site? He has a lot of information on his website that I feel could only benefit ours. Just a thought.

William Smith's picture
William Smith
Posted January 14, 2012 - 11:19pm

Club 5000Panel Member

Ranfft has a pretty cool online searchable database, gives production years by caliber, part numbers, interchangability and some specs which are useful but not extreemly helpful to naming models.  It's another resource though...just to use from his interface but not add to mybulova.com.   Regardless of content, it's like apples and oranges (or maybe avocadoes) to get stuff from one database into another. I think some members have most of this info in catalogs, manuals ect....but I sure don't, and I have used Ranfft site often.

mybulova_admin
Posted January 15, 2012 - 12:47am

Club 5000Panel Member

Email sent. Hopefully there is some information that we can use.

Thank you for the idea.

Marty0341
Posted January 19, 2012 - 9:26am

Bulova got back to me today, so we now have confirmation as to which model this is. Here is the email response they sent me:

"In the 1967 catalog. I found your watch which has the following writeup its
a Date King TT white 17 jewels, stainless streel
waterproof, automatic, shock resistant, unbrakable mainspring, calendar,
sweep second hand, luminous dial and hands adjustable expansion band
retailing for 59.95"

So this is a 67 Date King TT. Glad to have a name to a face :) Happy research guys!

simpletreasures
Posted January 19, 2012 - 9:33am

Good job Marty!!!

simpletreasures
Posted January 19, 2012 - 9:44am

Do you think they would send you a copy of that catalog page?

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted January 19, 2012 - 9:54am

Taaa daaaaa!

Information which would all but put to rest the theory that the Bulova 'PRESIDENT' came with anything less than 30 Jewels in 1964.

Comon sense says Movement Jewel counts do not change within a specific Model within a given production Year.

Nice one Marty.

Marty0341
Posted January 19, 2012 - 9:47am

Thank you Simple.

 

I have two questions for all of you.

1) The service department says that it has an 'unbreakable' mainspring. Unbreakable to me is a myth, anything can break. Do they claim that the watchspring is unbreakable if there is some sort of part int the movement that will prevent you from overwinding the mainspring? Does that safety feature make a mainspring 'unbreakable'?

2) Now that I am talking to a Bulova Service employee, should I ask for them to consider becoming a part of this forum? I am not trying to become an ambassador between us and Bulova, I just have an open line with them at the moment and while I have their attention should I bring this up to see if they can come in and provide: a) more ads b)catalogs they can provide c) a definitive answer as to yes this a Date King TT and not a stainless steel President. It was just a thought. Although I find that most of you are very informative and well versed in all things Bulova and I respect all of your hardwork, I ask this becuase then Bulova themselves can come in and clear up loose ends and end small debates as to whether the red ad was indeed a misprint or is correct. 

 

I leave this all to you our respected panel members, and Administrators, I would just love to see this website flourish into what I know it can become at its full potential. If this comes off as offensive, I apologize, that is not my intention. I would just like to suggest idea's that can help us out.

Marty

 

simpletreasures
Posted January 19, 2012 - 9:59am

Marty, Invite away!! Having a Bulova employee in the membership would be a asset. Having access to old catalogs would definitely be beneficial.

Un-breakable anything? Haven't seen it yet!

Marty0341
Posted January 19, 2012 - 9:49am

I will ask for the catalogue page as well. Thank you all, you guys did the heavy lifting, I just sent an email. ;p

FifthAvenueRestorations's picture
FifthAvenueRest...
Posted January 19, 2012 - 9:51am

Bulova has no records of Watches manufactured prior to 1950 - '52.