the 'FRANKENBULLY' category.

Are we getting to P.C. here??

I see nothing offensive about this...

Definition of NONCONFORM

I feel common ground is being reached but 'non-conforming' is still a slightly offensive description to the Watch owner.

'CUSTOM' is both descriptive and forgiving.

Any Watch owner would much rather posess a 'CUSTOM'ized Bulova than a 'NON-CONFORMING' Bulova.

IMO

Non-Conforming sounds as if the watch needs to go to a "Re-Education Camp"

I didn't think of it before but I kinda like "Hybrid"

Ya know what guys I'm tired of everything having to be politically correct! I voted for nonconforming but now I wish I had voted for frankenbully. I say call it what it is. If someone gets their feelings hurt so be it. I'd rather hear the truth from informed collectors than have my feeling spared.

Gee, as someone who grew up in the 60s and 70s Liberal in a Conservative area, 'Non-Conforming' sounds like a good thing!  ;-)

BTW, what exactly are the parameters of the proposed category? 

BTW, "Modified" and "Marriage" as I proposed them described two very different kinds of watch.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing Doug, but I doubt any collector outside of this site would know what a non conforming watch is. Call it a Frankenwatch or Frankenbully and they would know instantly!

Bob, the names don't bother me.  It's the lack of precision in defining the categories.  I'm now not certain what I voted for.

Doug you made me laugh:) As I understand it the case,dial and movement must be correct to the model.

You've now defined one category - and not the one we're primarily discussing!

Ok I'll be quite now. Think I'll go watch the hockey game. Now I don't even know what were discussing. I grew up in the 60's too so what ever you guy want to do is cool with me. POWER TO THE PEOPLE :)

how many times can We vote?

: )

In Chicago we say vote early and vote often!  :)

I came across a recent post by a new member - his first.  He listed his watch in the database.  These types of posts are not uncommon from new site members.  I see them often.  I know many of us try to help in what ever way we can.   The post simply started out:

     "Well my father passed away.  I wanted to restore to the original state, same band, fix the movement and get it up and running again.  Any one who can help me with more information........"

While it may not matter to me what we call the new category, it may make a difference to him.

I want to thank Stephen for his constant efforts to make this place what a bunch of cantankerous, opinionated collectors want it to be.  It must be driving him nuts, but he keeps at it.  Kudos!!

On WTF right now there's an exodus of the most knowledgeable vintage collectors over the arbitrary and rigid behavior of the site owner.  His site, his right, of course, but he's losing the very things that got people to go there in the first place.  All the Hamilton resources - the ads, the decades of catalogs, the picture database - all gone.

That's the difference between running a site for profit, and running a site for collectors.

I wouldn't want to be Stephen, I'd drive Me nuts.

...hats off to Ya mate!

Fifth your remarks are telling.  Admin needs help from his most active site members, This discussion string and resulting poll has been more about; "who's going to win the naming rights for the category under discussion,"  than " what characteristic definition is needed for the site to fulfill its purpose."   Admin posted a set of criteria for the category as follows:

watches that meet one of the following criteria:

• Bulova case, non-Bulova movement
• Bulova case, non-Bulova dial
• Bulova dial, Bulova movement, non-Bulova case
• Bulova dial, non-Bulova movement, non-Bulova case
• Bulova case from one model, Bulova movement and/or dial from another model * 

* Certain exceptions may apply.

In general a watch comprising of parts that are non-original to a 'known' Bulova model. Watches falling into this category can now be ID'd as such on this site.

So 5th, tell me; What are the characteristics of a "known" Bulova model?

What is non-Bulova? What defines original What is non-original? What is the status of a watch that has been repaired, as indicated by jewelers marks, with respect to original?  What role does condition play in determining if a watch is a "known" model.   The site is not about $values by definition, yet we all know a watch with 3 stars is going to be worth more than one with none! What about (a can of worms) bands? 

These may seem like trivial questions to answer to you, but I find no answer to these questions from reading the Forum discussion string.   There are hints and preferences, but the lack of consistent  documentation on Bulova models leads me to believe you EXPERTS  need to sit down and provide Admin some written discriptions concerning your experience in collecting Bulovas.  For example document your experience with certain numeral types used on Excellancy watches as that model has changed over the years. For those who's expertise is crystal fit, compile a list of dimensions etc. for the "known" models so it can be posted. Pictures and ads are good, but those of you with extensive collections and time spent in collecting, repairing selling etc. can benifit the site by working with Admin rather than expecting im to meet your needs. 

As a retired data base administrator (just one many things in my old job discription) my advise to Amin is to put you Experts to work off line (individuall and collectively) to provide him the information the site needs to be effective. 

You may not get paid but you would be more than passive USERS of his site. If Admin needs me to do something he only has to ask.

JCEagle

JCEagle.

The end result of this thread has been compromise, not who is going to win. If I were to have it My way an additional category would not exist and to be honest could care less what it's called - My suggestions were/are  merely less offensive to the unknowing Bulova Owner than others.

Traits of a known Bulova Model are just that a Model readily identifiable by ads in the Database.

Traits of an unknown Bulova Model are signed Case, Movement and Dial which all appear era correct based on the styling of the time.

Any Watch missing one or more of the above would be deemed non-Bulova and not permitted to enter the database. IMO

A Non-conforming Custom Bulova Watch would be any Modified Hybrid Cobbled together using only Bulova parts. - The Frankenbully.

On occaision the line between an Unknown and a Frankenbully will be a fine one, as a group let's try not to overthink the subject as it will work its way through eventually.

Once again, Admin posted the following as the set of criteria for the category.

watches that meet one of the following criteria:

• Bulova case, non-Bulova movement
• Bulova case, non-Bulova dial
• Bulova dial, Bulova movement, non-Bulova case
• Bulova dial, non-Bulova movement, non-Bulova case
• Bulova case from one model, Bulova movement and/or dial from another model * 

* Certain exceptions may apply.

In general a watch comprising of parts that are non-original to a 'known' Bulova model. Watches falling into this category can now be ID'd as such on this site.

Without trying to over think, it would be helpful to know the answer to the following questions about myBulova watches.

Do the ads in the Database show all of the Bulova models listed on the database pick list?

 Is the database  pick list complete?

 Do all Bulova watches have model names/numbers as well as serial numbers,dates?

 Do all Bulova watches have a signed Case, Movement and Dial?

Era correct based on the styling of the time is in the eye of the beholder. Could someone put together a list of  traits/characteristics, etc., that are era specific?

How would a watch put together using only signed Bulova parts be distinguished from one that should be rejected?

Could someone put together a list of the points/traits/characteristics that distinguish a specific model?

JCEagle 

Then I disagree with admins' criteria, but this isn't My website:

1. No.

2. No.

3. Yes.

4. Yes, IMO.

5. Would depend on the era.

6. A reject would have a non Bulova Movement or Case, but that goes against what admin has laid out.

7. Too broad of a question - models are identified by ads etc.

Folks, Almost the majority of unknown FB's have been re-cased and perhaps re-dialed for the aftermarket case. Perhaps the catagory should be " Re-Cased" or "Re-Cased- Re-Dialed".

Personally, I don't care what we call it as long as this discussion yeilds clear quidelines for entering a watch to the DB before it is entered.

Stephen is trying to expand the knowledge database which can be shared by all users so they don't have to make the same mistakes we all have made. It will be a valuable tool for all to use.

I am also of the opinion that Stephen also add a disclaimer stating that the voting is based upon evidence provided and the opinions of the voting Panel members  whether right or wrong. A perfect example is my A17A Military currently rated at 2.5 stars. Why, because some member/members didn't like the dial restoreation. It's ID cannot be denied as it's clearly stamped on the watch, but it has been here....... due to opinions of others.

this is still going on? anyway shawn, i don't think that your watch should get only 2.5 stars becasue people didn't like the redial....its still what it is the color of the dial doesn't change that...i think that should go for any watch..ie if i had some lone eagle with a red dial,which i wouldn't do..but if i did it would still be a lone eagle..also its hard to truly match a dial to an original...